Europe having its own 9/11 right now. Turn on the news.

[Paul Mackin]

And to sleep-deprived I would like to add age-deprived--my ancient CNS
chugs along so moppingly.



































s moves so slowly.

P

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
> But then the great part about any real A) intellectual community and B)
> family (both of which I believe describe this list) is that someone can
> offer an idea that maybe isn't fully considered or that comes from a
> less-than-optimal version of themselves (e.g. sleep-deprived//because aren't
> we all always less-than-optimal versions of ourselves?) and then not be
> exiled or shunned or whatever. Not be held to that version of themselves
> forever. Even in real life we don't always get that; what makes this list
> wonderful is that we get it here.
>
> You guys--Mark and David, specif--make this place what it is. I take from it
> so much more than I give, and only today am realizing the extent to which I
> actually rely on it. So thanks to the both of yas.
>
> Steve
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Some remarkable posts today.
>>
>> It may tragedy to get people really talking.
>>
>> Thanks, all.
>>
>> Incidentally, I didn't take Mark's words saying, look Europe over there,
>> now you know what it's like. He was just doing what Steven said about
>> showing empathy.
>>
>> P
>>
>> P
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Momò Nin <momonin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know either.
>>> I just feel deeply sad for the disaster and also for people's reaction.
>>>
>>> when I saw Mark's post,
>>> I understood it, I didn't think its a wrong title, but it wasn't correct
>>> to me either.
>>> at least I felt I could share a "consensus" by reading it.
>>>
>>> I am a taiwanese, educated in south italy, now living and working in
>>> dublin, ireland,
>>> my facebook is always a fantastic field for me to discover how people
>>> could care the same matter so differently.
>>> (i have friends from all over the asia...right/left wing italians...and
>>> many more)
>>> So, the "consensus" I read today was wonderful.
>>>
>>> Dave Monroe was lucky for a day like today.
>>>
>>> beasie the is bullshit,
>>> my complains are mainly about all the english speaking medias.
>>> they are all unfair in relaity...
>>>
>>> Peace and hugs
>>>
>>> Momò
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 November 2015 at 17:38, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh I dunno. I mean it kind of seems to me like interpreting the
>>>> suffering of others via our own closer experience of it is probably
>>>> foundational to the phenomenon of empathy. Right? I mean isn't that one of
>>>> the nobler applications of our fundamental tendency toward
>>>> self-centeredness? Yes, I can see how doing so via labelling an act of
>>>> terror a different (and therefore maybe by definition lesser) version of
>>>> some original (in this case 9/11) might seem not the absolute most
>>>> sensitive/aware of all possible avenues for talking about this.
>>>>
>>>> But, like, as a follower but infrequent participant of this list, I was
>>>> very moved by the instinctive collectivization of grief and love for Dave
>>>> Monroe yesterday.
>>>>
>>>> When I read about the Paris shit, I instantly thought of this list.
>>>> Because one can see, instantly, the horrible potential long-term ripples
>>>> (like, military ripples, international ripples, historical ripples) of
>>>> something like this. Which made me feel kind of worried about the way the
>>>> French and the world would respond/change. And made me feel inadequate to
>>>> really understand the situation. But then it made me feel good to think of
>>>> this community. Made me feel like there was a transnational space in which
>>>> love permeated such membranes as country et al. And in which there were
>>>> people who could communicate in any variety of ways about extremely
>>>> difficult shit, all toward some better end (or none at all, unlike[...]).
>>>>
>>>> Being sensitive/empathetic in the wrong way is maybe not the most
>>>> deserving (or productive) victim of our scorn today. [My humble opining.]
>>>>
>>>> I would like to express a lot of sadness for The Paris Shit. I visited
>>>> there for the first time in the fall and while that shouldn't increase one's
>>>> personal grief for something like this, especially in light of all the other
>>>> countries experiencing their own version of The Shit, it does, and did for
>>>> me. But then also I do not mean to imply that I am more impacted than anyone
>>>> else; I'm not. I would like anyone who is impacted to know that they have my
>>>> sympathy and love and, if they want it, my attention--and in doing so I
>>>> might think it wise to express that I was sort of witness to a massive and
>>>> unjustifiable and horrifying act of terror in my own country (but don't mean
>>>> to diminish what's going on in theirs, or to them). Etc. Suddenly I'm more
>>>> focused on qualifying my love and support and grief than feeling it. Or,
>>>> Jesus, enacting it.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 11:03 AM, David Kilroy
>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> To parse the tragedy at Bataclan as It Happened To America First is
>>>>> crass. We know what you meant, but the american branding of crisis
>>>>> isn't applicable, particularly in re: Europe, which has suffered
>>>>> zealotry far harder than americans have any emotional metric for. I'm
>>>>> sure a couple of Londoners thought 7-7 but even a Hackney crackhead
>>>>> has more class than to say Ich Bin Ein Berliner about this madness.
>>>>> Sept 11th is a measure for naval gazing, not catastrophe.
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l