Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313

Mon Nov 16 14:36:08 CST 2015

Journey to Jihad
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/journey-to-jihad

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:34 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> Losers, then. That the people you mention put their love into art or music
> or some other constructive and creative passion argues my point. Of course
> my emphasis on the sexual frustrations is a bit hyperbolic, but my point is
> that these boys were not brilliantly coordinating a war plan but were
> losers who were easily exploited. And, while we need to condemn their
> atrocities, we need no elevate their stupid and senseless acts of murder to
> a war that we can only win if NATO bombs even more people, drones even more
> people and etc.
>
> These were losers. Like the idiots up in Boston. Like the boys wielding
> knives in Israel....etc.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:45 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> It's way too easy to write these guys off as losers who can't get laid.
>> Hey, I've known plenty of people who've never had a serious relationship,
>> and rarely, if ever have gotten laid. They channel their frustration into
>> obsessions with art, film, music. You know the type. Should we start
>> pointing fingers at anyone who hasn't been in a relationship?
>>
>> That Guardian article Mark posted makes it clear: ISIS attracts many
>> people with solid people skills, who, in turn are able to spend hours and
>> hours on line, luring others (girls as well as boys) into the movement. Few
>> losers-who-can't-get-laid have that amount of social finesse. And a big
>> selling point is the trading of a humdrum life for the romance of fighting
>> and/or dying for the "cause." Sure, it's easier to lure in the mentally
>> ill, the lonely, the broke. But their ability to lure in romantics and
>> idealists, and skew their world-view so much that the death of innocents -
>> even little Muslim kids - becomes lost in the swell of glory of the cause,
>> well, that's the truly scary part.
>>
>> It emphasizes the stupidity of cracking down on the Occupy encampments -
>> they provided a solid grounding point for restless romantics. We need more
>> of that.
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: ish mailian
>>
>> Sent: Nov 16, 2015 11:11 AM
>>
>> To: Pynchon-l at waste.org
>>
>> Subject: Re: Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313
>>
>>
>>
>> Nah, they are losers. They tried to fit in, to have a girl....these boys
>> and the men who sent them to an early grave did not act heroically, this
>> was no  "brilliantly coordinated act of war" (the Esquire article); that
>> the fools exploded their vests, spilling their guts outside the stadium is
>> evidence that they were boys sent on a mission, like the boys who marched
>> across minefields, like so many boys in war....
>> Poor boys. Never even made love. They never made war either.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:03 AM, David Kilroy <thesaintgodard at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> These 'losers' are indoctrinated and brainwashed same as any marine
>>
>> sniper. As damaged, in their way, as any Starkweather. To simplify
>>
>> them as Losers is too 2-D, too subjective, too dismissive. These
>>
>> people, their worldview, has to be understood to be effectively
>>
>> opposed. Not everyone who opts for celibacy hates sex. Sex is life but
>>
>> it isn't the only reason to live. Additionally it's a fair bet the
>>
>> bombers wanked as much as anyone. The 100 percent celibate is very,
>>
>> very rare. Masturbation may be self-love but it's hardly a substitute
>>
>> for empathy. Empathy is what's damaged in these killers: they're
>>
>> taught to not see humanity but an evidence of humanity's failure in
>>
>> the eyes of Allah. WE are the 'losers' to them: we are the Them to
>>
>> their Us. Sex alone cannot cure that psychosis.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/16/15, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Even the losers get lucky sometimes. But these losers, boys for the most
>>
>> > part, don't get that, so they hate themselves, hate women, hate sex, and
>>
>> > sport, and rock and roll and restaurants and good food and drink, and a
>>
>> > good time. How unfortunate. To aggrandize the anxiety of these losers,
>> to
>>
>> > make them ideological spokesmen of the Palestinian plight, the
>>
>> > Post-Colonial rebound, the effect of Orientalists and Oil, is silly.
>> These
>>
>> > boys are losers. Masturbation may have prevented this, and a good night
>> out
>>
>> > and some sex would have surely.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >> Come now, you who say,
>>
>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote1>“Today
>>
>> >> or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year there
>>
>> >> and
>>
>> >> trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring.
>>
>> >> What is your life? For
>>
>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote2>you
>>
>> >> are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes. Instead
>> you
>>
>> >> ought to say, <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote3>“If
>> the
>>
>> >> Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.”
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >> 2015-11-16 11:12 GMT+01:00 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>:
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >>> Hm.
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:02 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
>>
>> >>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>>    In the taxi on the way home, there's loud traffic in Arabic on the
>>
>> >>>> radio, which Maxine figures at first for a call-in show till the
>> cabbie
>>
>> >>>> picks up a handset and joins in. She glances at the ID up on the
>>
>> >>>> Plexiglas.
>>
>> >>>> The face in the photo is too indistinct to make out, but the name is
>>
>> >>>> Islamic, Mohammed somebody.
>>
>> >>>>    It's like hearing a party from another room, though Maxine notices
>>
>> >>>> there's no music, no laughing. High emotion all right, but closer to
>>
>> >>>> tears
>>
>> >>>> or anger. Men talking over each other, shouting, interrupting. A
>> couple
>>
>> >>>> of
>>
>> >>>> the voices might be women's, though later it will seem they could
>> have
>>
>> >>>> belonged to high-pitched men. The only word Maxine recognizes, and
>> she
>>
>> >>>> hears it more than once, is *Inshallah*. "Arabic for 'whatever,'"
>> Horst
>>
>> >>>> nods.
>>
>> >>>>    They're waiting at a light. "If it is God's will," the driver
>>
>> >>>> corrects him, half turning in his seat so that Maxine happens to be
>>
>> >>>> looking
>>
>> >>>> him in the face. What she sees there will keep her from getting to
>>
>> >>>> sleep
>>
>> >>>> right away. Or that's how she'll remember it.
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>>
>>
>> >>>
>>
>> >>
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
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