Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313

Mon Nov 16 16:33:13 CST 2015

Bureaucracy......again, the depth of GR.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:13 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I highly, highly recommend this short-ish podcast on the humdrum
> everyday workings of ISIS as well as their social media presence -
> it's evidence-based rather than speculative psycho-pathologising. Also
> deeply weird, looking at just how much of the terrorist's time is
> spent filling out invoices and claims and other paperwork, and having
> them returned by a superior for being incorrectly filed etc. And the
> main source is a journalist who is in constant communication with
> actual members of IS, so again it's not just someone opining or making
> a vague ideological argument.
>
> https://gimletmedia.com/episode/33-isis/
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:45 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Did you counter with: you shouldn't watch so much TV?
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Reminds me of when I was watching the news of the theater shooting in
>>> Aurora with my aunt, who is clueless about all the books she sees me
>>> reading, and the news anchor mentions the kid spent a lot of time studying.
>>> My aunt looked at me, almost horrified, and said, "you shouldn't read so
>>> much."
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 16, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Again, this is not to say that sexual frustration or bitter misogyny
>>>> leads directly to mass murder. If it did, we would live in a very dangerous
>>>> world indeed. But they cannot be dismissed as factors. It has long been
>>>> assumed that young men are better fighters when they are deprived of sex,
>>>> like slavering dogs fighting in a pit.
>>>>
>>>> Extremism: the loser's revenge
>>>>
>>>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/25/terrorism.comment
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:36 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Journey to Jihad
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/journey-to-jihad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:34 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Losers, then. That the people you mention put their love into art or
>>>>>> music or some other constructive and creative passion argues my point. Of
>>>>>> course my emphasis on the sexual frustrations is a bit hyperbolic, but my
>>>>>> point is that these boys were not brilliantly coordinating a war plan but
>>>>>> were losers who were easily exploited. And, while we need to condemn their
>>>>>> atrocities, we need no elevate their stupid and senseless acts of murder to
>>>>>> a war that we can only win if NATO bombs even more people, drones even more
>>>>>> people and etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These were losers. Like the idiots up in Boston. Like the boys wielding
>>>>>> knives in Israel....etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:45 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's way too easy to write these guys off as losers who can't get
>>>>>>> laid. Hey, I've known plenty of people who've never had a serious
>>>>>>> relationship, and rarely, if ever have gotten laid. They channel their
>>>>>>> frustration into obsessions with art, film, music. You know the type. Should
>>>>>>> we start pointing fingers at anyone who hasn't been in a relationship?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That Guardian article Mark posted makes it clear: ISIS attracts many
>>>>>>> people with solid people skills, who, in turn are able to spend hours and
>>>>>>> hours on line, luring others (girls as well as boys) into the movement. Few
>>>>>>> losers-who-can't-get-laid have that amount of social finesse. And a big
>>>>>>> selling point is the trading of a humdrum life for the romance of fighting
>>>>>>> and/or dying for the "cause." Sure, it's easier to lure in the mentally ill,
>>>>>>> the lonely, the broke. But their ability to lure in romantics and idealists,
>>>>>>> and skew their world-view so much that the death of innocents - even little
>>>>>>> Muslim kids - becomes lost in the swell of glory of the cause, well, that's
>>>>>>> the truly scary part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It emphasizes the stupidity of cracking down on the Occupy encampments
>>>>>>> - they provided a solid grounding point for restless romantics. We need more
>>>>>>> of that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: ish mailian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Nov 16, 2015 11:11 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: Pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nah, they are losers. They tried to fit in, to have a girl....these
>>>>>>> boys and the men who sent them to an early grave did not act heroically,
>>>>>>> this was no  "brilliantly coordinated act of war" (the Esquire article);
>>>>>>> that the fools exploded their vests, spilling their guts outside the stadium
>>>>>>> is evidence that they were boys sent on a mission, like the boys who marched
>>>>>>> across minefields, like so many boys in war....
>>>>>>> Poor boys. Never even made love. They never made war either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:03 AM, David Kilroy
>>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> These 'losers' are indoctrinated and brainwashed same as any marine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sniper. As damaged, in their way, as any Starkweather. To simplify
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> them as Losers is too 2-D, too subjective, too dismissive. These
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> people, their worldview, has to be understood to be effectively
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> opposed. Not everyone who opts for celibacy hates sex. Sex is life but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it isn't the only reason to live. Additionally it's a fair bet the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bombers wanked as much as anyone. The 100 percent celibate is very,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> very rare. Masturbation may be self-love but it's hardly a substitute
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for empathy. Empathy is what's damaged in these killers: they're
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> taught to not see humanity but an evidence of humanity's failure in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the eyes of Allah. WE are the 'losers' to them: we are the Them to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> their Us. Sex alone cannot cure that psychosis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/16/15, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Even the losers get lucky sometimes. But these losers, boys for the
>>>>>>> > most
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > part, don't get that, so they hate themselves, hate women, hate sex,
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > sport, and rock and roll and restaurants and good food and drink,
>>>>>>> > and a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > good time. How unfortunate. To aggrandize the anxiety of these
>>>>>>> > losers, to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > make them ideological spokesmen of the Palestinian plight, the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Post-Colonial rebound, the effect of Orientalists and Oil, is silly.
>>>>>>> > These
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > boys are losers. Masturbation may have prevented this, and a good
>>>>>>> > night out
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > and some sex would have surely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Jochen Stremmel
>>>>>>> > <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Come now, you who say,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote1>“Today
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year
>>>>>>> >> there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will
>>>>>>> >> bring.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> What is your life? For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote2>you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
>>>>>>> >> Instead you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> ought to say,
>>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote3>“If the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> 2015-11-16 11:12 GMT+01:00 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>> Hm.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:02 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>    In the taxi on the way home, there's loud traffic in Arabic on
>>>>>>> >>>> the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> radio, which Maxine figures at first for a call-in show till the
>>>>>>> >>>> cabbie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> picks up a handset and joins in. She glances at the ID up on the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Plexiglas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> The face in the photo is too indistinct to make out, but the name
>>>>>>> >>>> is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Islamic, Mohammed somebody.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>    It's like hearing a party from another room, though Maxine
>>>>>>> >>>> notices
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> there's no music, no laughing. High emotion all right, but closer
>>>>>>> >>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> tears
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> or anger. Men talking over each other, shouting, interrupting. A
>>>>>>> >>>> couple
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> the voices might be women's, though later it will seem they could
>>>>>>> >>>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> belonged to high-pitched men. The only word Maxine recognizes,
>>>>>>> >>>> and she
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> hears it more than once, is *Inshallah*. "Arabic for 'whatever,'"
>>>>>>> >>>> Horst
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> nods.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>    They're waiting at a light. "If it is God's will," the driver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> corrects him, half turning in his seat so that Maxine happens to
>>>>>>> >>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> looking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> him in the face. What she sees there will keep her from getting
>>>>>>> >>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> sleep
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> right away. Or that's how she'll remember it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
> -
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