,Re: In case no one else saw this

[Paul Mackin]

 You were brought up well.  Love thy neighbor as thyself.


On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 6:43 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> Was taught to hate what people do, but never to hate people for who or what
> they are. No wonder I ended up on the P-List. In any event, in the essay
> Thomas provided, the author asks a wonderful question about life: what do
> the people live for? But the author, in the one sentence mixes the people,
> the ordinary people, with the extremists and murderers of innocence. We
> can't assume that the people want what Westerners want for them, or even
> what the partners in the region the West allies itself with, are advancing
> what the people want. There are a lot of different wants and needs.
>
> What the extremists want is something we in the West must resist, at home
> and where it takes toot. How we do that is a question we've not been able to
> answer or address, as most of our actions have been counterproductive.
>
> But finding out what the people want and love, what they live for, is a
> start. The refugees fleeing the region may be great spokespersons for these
> ideas, but, they may be of mostly one mind, after all, they are fleeing to
> the West to find safety and freedom from war and tyranny. Maybe the
> paternalistic orientalism is at a tipping point. It seems this is what is
> happening in IRan.
>
> I don't really know.
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 6:15 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That feeling when the Pynchon List is discussing who it's OK to hate.
>>
>> And we couldn't get through one group read of Bleeding Edge.
>>
>> PS Paul it's great to hear from you again lately. Elder statesman of
>> the list, for the newcomers.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Ok to hate jihadist I thot
>> >
>> > On Nov 18, 2015 8:58 PM, "Mark Thibodeau" <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am finding it difficult to understand why it's okay to hate National
>> >> Socialists as a group, but NOT Islamic fundamentalists. After all, NOT
>> >> ALL
>> >> NAZIS, like, worked in concentration camps, you know! And weren't they
>> >> defending themselves and their homeland during a time of, like, WAR?
>> >>
>> >> At what point does the cognitive dissonance result in a destructive
>> >> resonance feedback loop that shakes all of reality apart?
>> >>
>> >> J
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 5:42 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> ah, the press. The first essay suggests there is a far more productive
>> >>> way to think about the IS:
>> >>>
>> >>> " It is much more productive to think about what the Islamic State’s
>> >>> combatants, or those of any other extremist group, or ordinary,
>> >>> peaceable
>> >>> Iraqis or Syrians want to live for."
>> >>>
>> >>> But the essay, after this fine suggestion, resorts to blaming us and
>> >>> those in the press for failing to follow this line of thought, then
>> >>> launches
>> >>> a nutshell reading of history that dumps more blame on us. The second
>> >>> essay
>> >>> is more of the same, blame, blame, blame.
>> >>>
>> >>> What do the extremists want to live for?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Thomas Eckhardt
>> >>> <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The topic at hand is also discussed here:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.salon.com/2015/11/18/its_paul_krugman_vs_noam_chomsky_this_is_the_history_we_need_to_understand_paris_isis/
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.salon.com/2015/11/15/we_brought_this_on_ourselves_after_paris_it_is_time_to_square_our_values_with_our_history/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In this case, as in the case of Ukraine, I generally agree with Smith
>> >>>> without supporting every claim he makes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 18.11.2015 um 15:19 schrieb ish mailian:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> While I agree that the narrative, "they hate us for our freedom" is
>> >>>>> being trotted out again, and that such narratives are used to divert
>> >>>>> attention from the atrocities committed by the West
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> (...)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> P.S. Did Bush say "freedom" or "freedoms"?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>
>
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l