NP - W von Braun on Nazi Hunter doc

[matthew cissell]

Asking how history works is not asking how people act, work and
operate. Nation weary of war? Surely you are thinking of some other
conflict or country. At the end of WWII the US certainly was not
experiencing the kind of burnout that has come with other engagements
eg Viet Nam.

Although your name is Rich, I have no reason to think you a dick or
anything else; in fact I've enjoyed your posts. Maybe my comment
seemed flippant, but the fact is that your line about "you can't come
down on average people" THAT doesnt cut it, bud. It was thanks to
"average people" and their absolute apathy or at least very well
feigned indifference that led to Auschwitz and before that to smaller
scenes of brutality and inhuman treatment of others. Ever heard of the
Herrin Massacre?

The lesson is: don't lend your hand to raise no flag upon a ship of
fools. It could all happen again and blaming the Powers-that-be for
their nefarious scheming and brilliant manipulation of the masses
through the media is not an excuse for the average man's participation
in the devil's dance. Yes, narratives can sell very well but only to
the right buyer. (Have you forgotten that the price of liberty is
eternal vigilance? Not just fear of Them but real frightening
knowledge that we can become THem.) Perhaps you missed my point that
many people were positively inclined toward Hitler and once he was
painted as the Big Baddy that duped everyone with his Evil crew people
were disposed to "turning the page".

   As for my stance, I like to think that the idea (reports of Nazi
scientists working for the US) would shock me into responding the way
Einstein and others did, but that didn't help much. I don't want to
play at whose-side-are-you-on? Like Woody I would prefer to use a
guitar to rid the world of fascists and its minions.

   I don't think history has a safe distance, it's always there ready
to leap - ask the folks in Kosovo, however you care to pronounce it.

  Oh the other lesson from WWII and a number of other episodes is that
anbody can do wonderful things. Some helped save jews or fleeing
spanish Republicans; in my own family somebody decided to adopt a
young Cherokee girl that was left orphan on the Trail of Tears. There
is a context of choice, but is there not also a choice of context?

ciao
 mc otis


On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 5:08 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> does history really work that way, I mean from street level? a nation weary
> of war, so much death. your oh gosh comment doesnt really cut it. I'm sure
> you'd be first on the picket lines back then wouldnt you? but who knows,
> maybe nback then you'd have a favorable view of fascists. I dont mean to be
> a dick. Im just saying you really cant come hard down on average people (not
> just Americans mind you) from the safe confines of 50-100 yrs hence. any one
> of us could have had a favorable view of monstrous people based on
> circumstances. if there is any lesson from the horrors of WW2 is that
> anybody at any time can do the most horrendous things. you cant distance
> those people from yourself.
>
> rich
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:11 AM, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for both your and Monte's responses.
>>
>> Although History Channel productions are not my cup of meat for
>> history, the fact that The Team was in the news, which I had no idea
>> about, got me to thinking about the post someone put up some weeks
>> back about American press infatuation with Hitler at home (Sept.4
>> Daily Mail). As I recall from that post many Americans held a
>> favorable view of AH. Perhaps all that made it easier to just let the
>> whole thing roll on by. "German (Nazi) scientists working in the US?
>> Oh gosh what a shock - can you pass the cornbread?" I mean by that
>> time the REAL fight was with them Reds.
>>
>> Didn't Wilhelm Reich say something about at a certain level the
>> Germans wanted a dictator? This then makes me think about how some of
>> Pynchon's characters (Frenesi for example) gravitate toward these
>> fascistic personalities.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the Linda Hunt reference, I just downloaded the PDF.
>>
>> Ciao
>> MC otis
>>
>> >
>
>
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