Fwd: GR translation: The physical grace to keep it working

[David Morris]

OK, but how does your take apply/fit with the rest of the statement? You
are saying that physical grace = gracefulness. How does that relate to "He
socked Them right in the toilet privacy of Their banks?"  How is that
action graceful?

IMHO, if he meant "graceful" he would have used that word.  I know you
earlier said "graciousness," but that is a definition of manners, not
movement.

When an athlete is "in the zone" it isn't so much about his movements.  It
is about being in a mental/spiritual state in which nothing can go wrong,
being in a state of grace.  That Zone is all-important tp Pynchon.


David Morris

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> fine. I read it as the way he flew....leave it out as a non-sequitor to
> the meaning of physical grace if you want.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:40 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nope.  Dumbo was always able to fly without the feather.  The feather was
>> a vehicle for him to BELIEVE he could fly.  Eventually he could BELIEVE
>> (and thus fly) without the feather.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I do not know how it might matter for translation but I think the
>>> estimable MOrris is wrong by about 180 degrees here. I think the word
>>> physical before grace signals a non-religious meaning--unlike most of TRP's
>>> uses of the word " grace".
>>>
>>> I think it means an athletic like coordination. See the move to Dumbo
>>> flying in he text.
>>>
>>> One definition from a Google Books search is graciousness ( in
>>> movement). In another book, The Letters of FS Fitzgerald, he uses the
>>> phrase in a letter to a ( young) woman who he thinks has bad posture and
>>> also  can't dance well. another cited usage comes from a book on Goethe and
>>> his culture, from a Schiller essay evidently.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 4:10 AM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Understood.  Thanks, Robert and David.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 3:15 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a really big and deep topic, but let's keep it as simple as we
>>>> can with this passage of GR.
>>>>
>>>> I think the usage of "grace" here is most related to the religious
>>>> definition: "unmerited divine assistance given humans."  Adding "physical"
>>>> makes it something manifested into the world, not merely an internal
>>>> condition.  And in this context it implies becoming, physically manifesting
>>>> as, an agent (angel? prophet?) of God, even unwittingly so:  "A-and it
>>>> doesn’t even matter why we’re doing this, either. Rocky? Yeah, what we need
>>>> isn’t right reasons, but just that grace."
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grace
>>>>
>>>> Full Definition of grace
>>>>
>>>> 1a :  unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration
>>>> or sanctification.   b: a virtue coming from God.  c: a state of
>>>> sanctification enjoyed through divine grace.
>>>>
>>>> 2a :  approval, favor <stayed in his goodgraces>b archaic :  mercy,
>>>> pardonc :  a special favor :  privilege <each in his place, by right, not
>>>> grace, shall rule his heritage — Rudyard Kipling>d :  disposition to or an
>>>> act or instance of kindness, courtesy, or clemencye :  a temporary
>>>> exemption :  reprieve
>>>>
>>>> 3a :  a charming or attractive trait or characteristicb :  a pleasing
>>>> appearance or effect : charm <all the grace of youth — John Buchan>c :
>>>>  ease and suppleness of movement or bearing
>>>>
>>>> 4—used as a title of address or reference for a duke, a duchess, or an
>>>> archbishop
>>>>
>>>> 5:  a short prayer at a meal asking a blessing or giving thanks
>>>>
>>>> 6plural capitalized :  three sister goddesses in Greek mythology who
>>>> are the givers of charm and beauty
>>>>
>>>> 7:  a musical trill, turn, or appoggiatura
>>>>
>>>> 8a :  sense of propriety or right <had the grace not to run for
>>>> elective office — Calvin Trillin>b :  the quality or state of being
>>>> considerate or thoughtful
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:51 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Physical" is not a word you would ordinarily see before "grace," and
>>>>> I think the juxtaposition doesn't change the latter so much as to try to
>>>>> make it more concrete, real.  Not sure the meaning would change much at all
>>>>> if "physical" were simply omitted.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 3:33 AM, Mike Jing <
>>>>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> V741.27-34, P756.13-20   He went out socked Them right in the toilet
>>>>>> privacy of Their banks. Who cares what he was thinking about, long as it
>>>>>> didn’t get in the way? A-and it doesn’t even matter why we’re doing this,
>>>>>> either. Rocky? Yeah, what we need isn’t right reasons, but just that grace.
>>>>>> The physical grace to keep it working. Courage, brains, sure, O.K., but
>>>>>> without that grace? forget it Do you—please, are you listening? This thing
>>>>>> here works. Really does. It worked for me, but I’m out of the Dumbo stage
>>>>>> now, I can fly without it. But you. Rocky. You . . . .”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What does "physical grace" refer to here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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