BtZ42 Section 6: Roger Mexico

[Mark Kohut]

Mexico is where Pynchon supposedly fled to---and fled from getting his
picture taken---after V. was published. as I believe I wrote, I think
Mexico is, in some complicit sense, the science participator in, like but
not like the scientist/engineers, Pointsman so far,
that are the destructive determinists.


He helps Pointsman round up the dog. Without his dogs, the Pavlovian is not
a true scientist in his results. He feels enthusiasm at handing off the
film of Slothrop.

He is the complicit one, yet in love genuinely.

Pynchon might have felt very complicit as a scientific writer within
Boeing, some say with surety. Just saying'.



On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 2:12 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Does anyone have any theories about Roger's last name? What, exactly, is
> Mexican, even, or especially, in a stereotypical sense, about this uptight,
> rule-following statistician? Later he has a pathetic moment of rebellion.
> But here he's willing to help Pointsman capture a hapless dog. And
> statistics, while it occupies the place between one and zero, is anything
> but warm and emotional (assuming that's the "southern" counterpoint).
>
> Laura
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> Sent: Apr 25, 2016 5:24 AM
> To: Mark Kohut , Joseph Tracy
> Cc: P-list List
> Subject: Re: BtZ42 Section 6: Roger Mexico
>
>
> On 24.04.2016 13:15, Mark Kohut wrote:
>
> Within GR, I most see Roger the statistician as the marker of probabilities.
> Pointsman is the scientific determinist .
>
>
> Math - think also the Quaternionists in AtD and VL's Weed Atman - is the
> non-determinist (and thus 'good') science in Pynchon's world, right?
>
> With its southy aroma, the name "Mexico" stands in direct opposition to
> the name "Pointsman".
>
> Then again, what's more determinist than --- an algorithm?
>
> Slothrop is the possibility ( or not) of freedom from.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 23, 2016, at 10:07 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>
>
> Good stuff.Statistics are weird in that they seem so scientific and are so easily ignored by just about everyone in favor of something like "gusts of emotion".
>
> On Apr 22, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roger the statistician: "By the time one has pulled one’s nth victim or part of a victim free of one’s nth pile of rubble, he told her once, angry, weary, it has ceased to be that personal . . . the value of n may be different for each of us, but I’m sorry: sooner or later . . ." (p. 41).
>
> Still in a Dylan Thomas mood, I'm hearing here "After the first death, there is no other."
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/refusal-mourn-death-fire-child-london
>
> Seen from one angle (sometimes but not always Jessica's), Roger is almost as inhuman(e)ly odd and chill as his colleagues. Seen from another (sometimes but not always Pointsman's), he is a threatening wild card, given to probabilities and the acceptance of random fluctuations rather than on-off (flip-flop in V.?), mechanistic certainties and strict causality.
>
> Statistics and probability theory themselves have Janus faces. Yes, they strip experience to bare chill manipulable numbers: that certainly seems bad. But yes, they *also* strip away preconception and anecdotal impression and bias to reveal what experience actually *is* over broader scales of time, space, and number than any one of us can grasp -- which is kinda good if you want to stop an epidemic (or a traditional but ineffective/harmful therapy), forestall a famine, anticipate global warming, etc.
>
> CF. my earlier remarks on P.M.S. Blackett, " <https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/refusal-mourn-death-fire-child-londonSeenfromoneangle%28sometimesbutnotalwaysJessica%27s%29,Rogerisalmostasinhuman%28e%29lyoddandchillashiscolleagues.Seenfromanother%28sometimesbutnotalwaysPointsman%27s%29,heisathreateningwildcard,giventoprobabilitiesandtheacceptanceofrandomfluctuationsratherthanon-off%28flip-flopinV.?%29,mechanisticcertaintiesandstrictcausality.StatisticsandprobabilitytheorythemselveshaveJanusfaces.Yes,theystripexperiencetobarechillmanipulablenumbers:thatcertainlyseemsbad.Butyes,they*also*stripawaypreconceptionandanecdotalimpressionandbiastorevealwhatexperienceactually*is*overbroaderscalesoftime,space,andnumberthananyoneofuscangrasp--whichiskindagoodifyouwanttostopanepidemic%28oratraditionalbutineffective/harmfultherapy%29,forestallafamine,anticipateglobalwarming,etc.CF.myearlierremarksonP.M.S.Blackett,>running a war on gusts of emotion," and both the V-weapons and Allied area bombing as examples of the latter. From one angle, we can see both programs as embodiments of implacable science / technology / industry... but had they really been evaluated by chill statistics, rather than as "oboy, here's a new way to hurt the enemy," neither would have been pursued.
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:33 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> Statistician. ( we will learn of his belief in the range between zero and one. Meanings here?)
> Works for The White Visitation. " The Dour Young Man of.."
> Doesn't get on with his colleagues
> Doesn't understand Pavlovians, but has to help Pointsman.
> Unappealing looks ( accepts jabs about) seemingly youthful looking.
> Pirate sez he's been euchred into a Byzantine exercise of psychological warfare conducted by The White Visitation. His " enthusiasm grows" with each film delivery from Bloat. (Section 5)
>
> " Never a prophetic dream, no telepathic messages, never touched The Other World directly"
> YET, he tells us of his first experience of " magic" : " data he can't argue away" ...." The feeling of actually being joined" w Jessica. IN love.
>
> Comments wanted.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad-
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=nchon-l
>
>
>
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