BtZ42 Section six. PP 38-42 (miller edition)

Wed Apr 27 16:34:49 CDT 2016

And, remember in the text where Roger laments he has no 'psychic" beyond
the material world experiences---and then does
of course declare that feeling like a separate new being with Jessica is
'magic'.

Perhaps he felt enthusiasm when he took Bloat's package and passed it on
because he hoped it might lead on to more "beyond"?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 5:25 PM, <msacha1121 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, and of course he's just one cog in a novel full of em... I need to
> start a running tally of expressions of regret. And who hasn't thought, at
> one time in their life, that anything would be better than "this"...
>
> As to the incompatibility of statistics with psychic matters, this seems
> congruous with what has been said elsewhere about power/control --
> statistics, data being very helpful toward this end (let's add IBM +
> holocaust to what Roger mentions), expanded here to the stuff beyond what
> we're maybe supposed to touch.
>
> On Apr 27, 2016, at 1:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, a very good question, I second and it reminds me what I thought this
> read: "invulnerable Death', that psychic business is
> not amenable to statistics.
> He likes what he has his skills for.
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Mark Sacha <msacha1121 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry if this has been mentioned already, playing catchup.
>>
>> But does anyone find it strange that Roger would prefer to work "in fire
>> control, or graphing Standardized Kill Rates Per Ton for the bomber
>> groups", all that McNamara-type number crunching to make death more
>> efficient, than the work he does at TWV? "this thankless meddling into the
>> affairs of invulnerable Death." I'm reading it that he maybe objects to the
>> intrusive nature of all the psychic business, concerned not with Death's
>> fact but its nature. Irony aside, it almost seems as if he's saying (and
>> this is what I can't parse) the former would put him outside of death's
>> employ.
>>
>> This is my second read, but I was a much worse reader during my first, so
>> it all feels pretty fresh. Thus my recollection of TWV is hazy at best.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tracing P's women from Jessica thru the fascist-loving ones would be an
>>> interesting exercise.
>>>
>>> My only perspective here is to say Scorpia and Jessica are what are
>>> often referred to as 'tough" women regarding love. They can fall, be in it
>>> and NOT get hurt )usual meaning of 'tough' in this regard, I think).
>>>
>>> Their lovers are soft as boys. They fall hard. It hurts. They never
>>> forget; they never get over it (at least Roger won't, he sez fer sure)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 9:44 AM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even with the Hollywood meet-cute aspects, it's hard not to take the
>>>> romance - They're in love - at face value. Jessica is never developed much
>>>> as a character, which counters the trend in Hollywood rom-coms of the 30s
>>>> and 40s (the skirt-lifting hitchhike is a trope used in It Happened One
>>>> Night. And maybe Sullivan's Travels?) But later in the book she's recast as
>>>> the cold-hearted status-husband-seeking Bitch (it's hinted at in the seance
>>>> scene, but dropped in this and the following Roger-Jessica scenes).
>>>>
>>>> Did Pynchon have it planned all along? Hard to say. Maybe he has her
>>>> turn in the Counterforce section of the book just to emphasize what Roger
>>>> is up against. At any rate, between being undeveloped first, and then
>>>> bitchified, she's one of the least likable of the not strictly villainous
>>>> (Gerda) female characters in the book. It seems, possibly, that she's the
>>>> foremother of all of Pynchon's later fascist-loving women.
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> >Sent: Apr 20, 2016 9:24 AM
>>>> >To: John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>>> >Cc: P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> >Subject: Re: BtZ42 Section six. PP 38-42 (miller edition)
>>>> >
>>>> >But my romantic reading does have a problem w P's clear Hollywood Rom
>>>> Com text. Where do we come down on this? For me, it is in the context of
>>>> some kind of real lasting love organically happening because of peacetime
>>>> normal courtships but...milages vary.
>>>> >
>>>> >Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >
>>>> >On Apr 20, 2016, at 7:40 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> When I first read this part of GR in my 20s I thought Roger and
>>>> >> Jessica were the kind of fictional couple meant to offer hope or at
>>>> >> least some optimism for the reader. "They are in love. Fuck the war."
>>>> >> That now seems to me more ironic. Hollywood love is not an effective
>>>> >> anti-war strategy. Connect with AN ARMY OF LOVERS CAN BE BEATEN,
>>>> >> later. Or how Pirate, who we might figure is our hero at first,
>>>> >> becomes so sexually/politically manipulable so quickly. How so many
>>>> of
>>>> >> these players are sexual marionettes!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm not arguing that Pynchon is arguing anything, but read in the
>>>> >> light of 1970s free love and the political shit going on and the
>>>> >> uneasy relationships between the sexual revolution and feminism and I
>>>> >> feel this whole thread of the novel records a pulse we have yet to
>>>> >> gauge.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 8:30 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>> Not much happens, but a fair amount gets stated (framed). Roger &
>>>> Jessica are driving east to meet Pointsman and be part of his dognapping
>>>> scheme. But they "want to be together, in bed, at rest, in love" ( tied up
>>>> at the end of the section with another scene of being together, "touches
>>>> and looks, smiles together, curses for parting".   This ending with the
>>>> memorable "they are in love. Fuck the war". )
>>>> >>> We get the flashback story of their cute meet. Busted bike, slip
>>>> and thighs showing, rom com initial put downs (P has signaled the Hollywood
>>>> lensing) bike smashed and she's " in his power."
>>>> >>> UTTERLY. (But Roger knows she isn't)
>>>> >>> Then a rocket lands. The War intrudes.
>>>> >>> We learn more about Roger ( which we will get to elsewhere)
>>>> >>> Then we are with First Responders and the bombed.
>>>> >>> "War's state"
>>>> >>> Roger is part of The White Visitation and The Home Front
>>>> is..."fiction and a lie".
>>>> >>> Fuck the war.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone-
>>>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>> >-
>>>> >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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