Bi-cameral brains in depth

[Paul Mackin]

Actually someone once was kicked off.  Can't remember who prevailed upon
the list owners to do it. Fortunately there was no way to make it stick.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> That there anarchy that keeps popping up in P's work, it's embodied here.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 2, 2016, at 9:54 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes and as far as I know the people who made the list have nothing to
> > do with it now. It's not only unmoderated, it's not possible to do
> > things like remove people from it. Which is pretty anarchic,
> > rhizomatic, decentralised.
> >
> >> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 11:29 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> The P-list has a long proud tradition of being unmoderated, with its
> >> resultant grand flame wars and relentless trolls.  Bove won't change
> that.
> >> He has been mild in comparison.
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Q: Why is Bove still allowed to participate here? His first message to
> >>> this group was essentially a single-sentence hate-utterance, and he
> >>> OBJECTIVELY wallows in his ignorance as though parading in his glory.
> >>>
> >>> He's a classic troll. Time to fumigate the bridge.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> Jerky LeBoeuf, esq.
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Check out this video: http://youtu.be/s1ZoEE9Kgu0
> >>>>
> >>>> Www.innergroovemusic.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 3:40 AM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Not sure where you're getting your fluff there, Bove. I never said
> >>>> anything
> >>>> about anything Al Huang said or did. Your attempt to dismiss the
> current
> >>>> hard science on how the central nervous system works by looking for
> >>>> holes in
> >>>> a few casual statements sounds a bit like a drunken spiel. Why houses?
> >>>> Because I felt like saying houses, that's why. Now pick up a few good
> >>>> current texts on neuroscience and do some reading before you get too
> far
> >>>> into your next fifth.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 8:27 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bove,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By illogical, I would cite your obvious arrogance, opposing so much
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> you have never even tried to experience. This realm of reality is
> known
> >>>>> best
> >>>>> by personal experience. "My back doesn't hurt" is just the first
> layer
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> that kind of experience, as wonderful as is that kind of healing.
> But
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> first step in the path of experiencing that reality is humility,
> which
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> lack in spades.  Your choice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Morris
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Monday, February 1, 2016, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>> From: David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Date: Monday, February 1, 2016
> >>>>>> Subject: Bi-cameral brains in depth
> >>>>>> To: john bove <malignd at gmx.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Your faith in Science above all other knowledge is illogical.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:47 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Bove,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You somehow think your measure of reality is superior because it is
> >>>>>>> somehow "objective?"  But your objectivity discounts multitudes of
> >>>>>>> eons of
> >>>>>>> subjective observation.  Call it what you will, but it is deep in
> the
> >>>>>>> genes.
> >>>>>>> Your standard is modern, but not inherently superior.  It has its
> >>>>>>> benefits,
> >>>>>>> but its horrors are also rife.  A real scientist would look at the
> >>>>>>> eons of
> >>>>>>> other esoteric sciences and be less hostile. They don't threaten
> you.
> >>>>>>> They
> >>>>>>> don't care about you.  Truth will prevail.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David Morris
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 5:39 PM, john bove <malignd at gmx.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm not picking a fight. I'm in fact doing the opposite, trying to
> >>>>>>>> take
> >>>>>>>> this seriously.  But  Chunlian Al Huang said or did this, and
> >>>>>>>> Spinoza
> >>>>>>>> thought that in the 15th century and even Nietsche gave it a green
> >>>>>>>> light ...
> >>>>>>>> The two houses of the brain ... (Why "houses"?), natural wisdom, a
> >>>>>>>> helix
> >>>>>>>> curved ...  By any standard this is laughable non-science, and so
> >>>>>>>> you have
> >>>>>>>> to fall back on the argument that science misses important keys of
> >>>>>>>> knowledge
> >>>>>>>> or undiscovered pathways or the wisdom of the ancients or
> whatever.
> >>>>>>>> If you
> >>>>>>>> can't do better than that or, instead, offer up anecdotal evidence
> >>>>>>>> ("my
> >>>>>>>> backache's gone!"), it's on the level of astrology.
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 at 2:20 PM
> >>>>>>>> From: "Ian Livingston" <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: "ish mailian" <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: "pynchon -l" <Pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Bi-cameral brains in depth
> >>>>>>>> Keith, my teacher's teacher was Chunliang Al Huang. It is a less
> >>>>>>>> martial, more simply chi-oriented style that resembles dance more
> >>>>>>>> than
> >>>>>>>> combat-training--but, then, tai chi chuan resembles dance in
> >>>>>>>> individual
> >>>>>>>> practice anyhow, doesn't it?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Joseph, there is indeed support for the linear / holistic
> activities
> >>>>>>>> for recognizing a division of labor between the two houses of the
> >>>>>>>> brain.
> >>>>>>>> Language is associated with the left brain, so pretty much all we
> >>>>>>>> express in
> >>>>>>>> linguistic terms (remembering that mathematics is a language, as
> may
> >>>>>>>> movement be) is dominated by left-brain activity. That, of course,
> >>>>>>>> implies
> >>>>>>>> that even the most finely-honed linguistic approaches to
> expression
> >>>>>>>> also
> >>>>>>>> engage the broader, synthetic functions of the creative, visionary
> >>>>>>>> areas of
> >>>>>>>> the right brain. I look forward to reading The M & Em.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And pain, yes. Some of the neurons associated with pain messages
> >>>>>>>> extend
> >>>>>>>> the entire distance from the mid-brain to the tip of the big toe.
> >>>>>>>> That can
> >>>>>>>> be a 7' long neuron. Don't know where I'm going with that, but,
> >>>>>>>> hey--it's
> >>>>>>>> just one of those remarkable factoids contained within the fact of
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> non-duality of the body and mental activity. It still fascinates
> me
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> Spinoza postulated that argument so effectively in the 15th c.
> >>>>>>>> That's quite
> >>>>>>>> a stretch for a lens grinder! For all his eagerness to dismiss
> >>>>>>>> Spinoza for
> >>>>>>>> his methods, even Nietzsche embraced the rightness of his thought.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 3:47 AM, ish mailian <
> ishmailian at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In this brief and simple piece some of the ideas discussed here
> >>>>>>>>> recently are addressed. One of the ideas is the Natural wisdom we
> >>>>>>>>> have, of our bodies, bodies that are not separate from our heads
> or
> >>>>>>>>> minds, not divided. .  We got here without much of modern
> >>>>>>>>> medicine's
> >>>>>>>>> miracles. The miracle of conception, of two sharing the energies
> of
> >>>>>>>>> life, the double, is a black hole, is a helix curved.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Does Lamaze “Work”?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431777/
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> https://www.timeshighereducation.com/content/book-review-black-hole-by-marcia-bartusiak
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/12/lifes-greatest-secret-story-race-genetic-code-matthew-cobb-review
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 12:09 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> >
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Just caught your reply tonight. Thanks for the feedback. Your
> >>>>>>>>>> experience with accupuncture, where the healing takes place
> >>>>>>>>>> overnight, is
> >>>>>>>>>> typical of several people I have talked with and my own
> >>>>>>>>>> experience. Makes me
> >>>>>>>>>> think pain works in the brain in a self-reinforcing cycle. I
> find
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> sending consciousness and , in my imagination, breath/chi to an
> >>>>>>>>>> aggravated
> >>>>>>>>>> or painful area while doing qigong exercises has reliably good
> >>>>>>>>>> results.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As far as the hemisphere differences, McGilchrist often repeats
> >>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>> your studies are saying that complex processes engage  more than
> >>>>>>>>>> one
> >>>>>>>>>> hemisphere. But it does seem irrefutable that when there is for
> >>>>>>>>>> instance a
> >>>>>>>>>> stroke that severely impairs one hemisphere or the other the
> >>>>>>>>>> disabilities
> >>>>>>>>>> are dramatically different for each and fall into distinct
> >>>>>>>>>> patterns of
> >>>>>>>>>> effect that point both to the kinds of things that each
> hemispere
> >>>>>>>>>> is likely
> >>>>>>>>>> to handle and to the way each side processes personal
> experiences
> >>>>>>>>>> and mental
> >>>>>>>>>> tasks.  Of course what is hard to tell by that means would be
> >>>>>>>>>> something that
> >>>>>>>>>> initiates in one hemispere and is sent to the other  for the
> bulk
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> processing. But his extensive citations show he is not alone in
> >>>>>>>>>> his leanings
> >>>>>>>>>> about some general and specific  differences between the
> >>>>>>>>>> hemisperes.
> >>>>>>>>>> McGilchrists mastery of the current reasearch is not of a
> >>>>>>>>>> pop-science
> >>>>>>>>>> quality, but the expression of a life devoted to brain research
> >>>>>>>>>> and its
> >>>>>>>>>> interpretation in a larger context.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 4:00 AM, Ian Livingston
> >>>>>>>>>>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> A single accupuncture treatment cured my sciatica a decade ago
> >>>>>>>>>>> after I had thrown useless hundreds away on massage therapy and
> >>>>>>>>>>> chiropractic
> >>>>>>>>>>> treatment. The next step was to be weeks of bed rest I could
> not
> >>>>>>>>>>> afford
> >>>>>>>>>>> combined with pain meds. Would've cost thousands in lost work
> >>>>>>>>>>> and expenses.
> >>>>>>>>>>> On a whim, because I figured I had nothing to lose, I stopped
> at
> >>>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>>> accupuncture school in Santa Cruz, Ca, where I lived at the
> >>>>>>>>>>> time, and got a
> >>>>>>>>>>> low-cost treatment from an advanced student. That night the
> pain
> >>>>>>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>> incredible, but I eventually fell asleep and woke in the
> morning
> >>>>>>>>>>> pain-free,
> >>>>>>>>>>> with full range of motion. True story. I took up tai chi chuan
> >>>>>>>>>>> as a
> >>>>>>>>>>> maintenance plan, and have had no flare-ups of the pain I
> >>>>>>>>>>> experienced while
> >>>>>>>>>>> trying to climb trees (I was a full-time arborist then) and
> >>>>>>>>>>> carry heavy logs
> >>>>>>>>>>> and limbs, and generally bend, lift and twist 8 hours a day.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I do not understand all the energy theories. I've been at the
> >>>>>>>>>>> fringes of all that stuff for decades, on and off, of course,
> >>>>>>>>>>> but I've
> >>>>>>>>>>> mostly worked in heavy labor and played in book-learning. It
> was
> >>>>>>>>>>> shortly
> >>>>>>>>>>> after the incident with the sciatica that I took up a serious
> >>>>>>>>>>> Zen meditation
> >>>>>>>>>>> practice, which did wonders for helping me to stop smoking and
> >>>>>>>>>>> quit caffeine
> >>>>>>>>>>> without anxiety or cravings. I went on to study Chinese alchemy
> >>>>>>>>>>> as a result
> >>>>>>>>>>> of reading Jung on the subject, and found myself in agreement
> >>>>>>>>>>> with him that
> >>>>>>>>>>> alchemy is indeed a psychological pursuit of integrity on a
> >>>>>>>>>>> relatively
> >>>>>>>>>>> subtle level. There's a terrific little intro book used in
> >>>>>>>>>>> Traditional
> >>>>>>>>>>> Chinese Medicine schools here in CA, The Web That Has No
> Weaver.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Worth a
> >>>>>>>>>>> look.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> In direct response to your query, Joseph, my profs were
> cautious
> >>>>>>>>>>> about the left-brain / right-brain differentiation primarily
> >>>>>>>>>>> because recent
> >>>>>>>>>>> work with fMRI studies shows that, when complex problems are
> >>>>>>>>>>> presented, the
> >>>>>>>>>>> whole brain lights up, with higher activity levels in some
> areas
> >>>>>>>>>>> than in
> >>>>>>>>>>> others. Also, the role of the corpus collosum appears to be
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> of making
> >>>>>>>>>>> sure that action potentials carry effectively between the two
> >>>>>>>>>>> cerebral
> >>>>>>>>>>> lobes. Furthermore, it would be false to say that the entire
> >>>>>>>>>>> brain is
> >>>>>>>>>>> divided by the corpus collosum. Only the cerebral cortex is
> thus
> >>>>>>>>>>> divided and
> >>>>>>>>>>> united, as it were. The why of that is the study of a great
> many
> >>>>>>>>>>> lifetimes.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Maybe humans will someday know. One of the darkest areas of
> >>>>>>>>>>> brain research
> >>>>>>>>>>> is still to do with neurotransmitters. Research reveals how
> they
> >>>>>>>>>>> work in
> >>>>>>>>>>> synapses, but how many operate within the brain is still
> >>>>>>>>>>> anybody's guess,
> >>>>>>>>>>> and the functions of only a very few are known. Folks are
> >>>>>>>>>>> discovering new
> >>>>>>>>>>> ones all the time.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'll leave off with a wonderful quote from one of my neuropsych
> >>>>>>>>>>> texts: "The number of possible synaptic connections in a normal
> >>>>>>>>>>> human brain
> >>>>>>>>>>> exceeds the number molecules in the known universe." I suspect
> >>>>>>>>>>> it'll be a
> >>>>>>>>>>> while before we fully understand an organ with that level of
> >>>>>>>>>>> potential
> >>>>>>>>>>> complexity.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Joseph Tracy <
> brook7 at sover.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The Chinese have been working with energy flow  for thousands
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>> years and have developed a medical system based on it that is
> >>>>>>>>>>> very
> >>>>>>>>>>> effective. The west too is beginning to study the flow of low
> >>>>>>>>>>> level electric
> >>>>>>>>>>> charge in the body.   Many would have mocked  mindfulness
> >>>>>>>>>>> meditation as
> >>>>>>>>>>> having any value a decade ago. Now, based on clinical trials,
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>> is being
> >>>>>>>>>>> incorporated into western medical practice. Tibetan herbs are
> >>>>>>>>>>> being used in
> >>>>>>>>>>> medical operations in Israel to minimize drug side effects and
> >>>>>>>>>>> improve the
> >>>>>>>>>>> speed and comfort of healing.  Such herbs are being studied in
> >>>>>>>>>>> Switzerland
> >>>>>>>>>>> and Germany for the treatment of high cholesterol.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> At 64 i have personally only found increased flexibility,
> better
> >>>>>>>>>>> posture,  improved non drug -dependent energy levels, and other
> >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
> >>>>>>>>>>> dramatically  positive effects from yoga, acupuncture, tai chi
> >>>>>>>>>>> and qigong. I
> >>>>>>>>>>> teach a small class on qi-gong and tai chi and others report
> >>>>>>>>>>> similar
> >>>>>>>>>>> positive results.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I understand  and practice skepticism. I see from a friends
> post
> >>>>>>>>>>> that the Dalai Lama is going in for prostate surgery. No
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kundalini bolt up
> >>>>>>>>>>> the spine for me so far.  I don’t so much believe in energy
> >>>>>>>>>>> meridians as
> >>>>>>>>>>> hold them in my mind as a map, and pay attention to my actual
> >>>>>>>>>>> experience
> >>>>>>>>>>> with qigong practices. Accupuncture can be simply amazing for
> >>>>>>>>>>> things that
> >>>>>>>>>>> doctors can’t seem to treat. Myself and several very rational
> >>>>>>>>>>> friends have
> >>>>>>>>>>> seen severe chronic pain from an injury disappear overnight
> >>>>>>>>>>> through
> >>>>>>>>>>> accupuncture.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 26, 2016, at 4:38 PM, john bove <malignd at gmx.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you too?  The Kundalini awakening???  Good luck.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 at 4:33 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "P-list List" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Bi-cameral brains in depth
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Very interesting response in that I am myself very engaged
> >>>>>>>>>>>> currently with trying to learn to meditate with particular
> >>>>>>>>>>>> interest in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Kundalini awakening. For years I have done yoga and for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> last 3 years
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have shifted my interest to qigong and tai chi. But for a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> couple months now
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have been trying to meditate and doing some breath
> >>>>>>>>>>>> practices. If you have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> any personal thoughts or advice or suggestions for reading or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> online info, I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> would be interested. With qigong I am experiencing very
> >>>>>>>>>>>> discernible warmth
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and tingling in my arms and hands and have been able to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> profoundly and at
> >>>>>>>>>>>> least for 2 months now, completely relieve some muscle knots
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in my left
> >>>>>>>>>>>> shoulder and neck - knots that had been with me for probably
> >>>>>>>>>>>> cloose to a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> decade.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In general it seems that asian philosophies and practices have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> much greater emphasis on balance. The idea/knowledge base that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the central
> >>>>>>>>>>>> channel has no power of its own is something I had missed but
> >>>>>>>>>>>> really fits
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with role of emptiness in Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism. Anyway
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thanks, David.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This one went right past the conversation at hand to hit dead
> >>>>>>>>>>>> center of my
> >>>>>>>>>>>> own interests and pursuits.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2016, at 4:00 PM, David Morris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In Eastern meditation/spiritual schools there is a concept
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kundalini energy that is the life-source of all animated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> flesh. This model
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is part of the ages-old Chakra system that illustrates the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> pathways of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> something called the "subtle body." In that model chakras
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are nodes of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> energy passage, crossings along the vertical main highways
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the three main
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> energy channels: the Right side (Bingala Nadi), the Left
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> side (Ida Nali),
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the Central channel (Sushumna Nadi). In some ways it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> might be said that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the goal of meditation when it come to the workings of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chakra system, is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to achieve a balanced blending of the right and left energy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> channels into
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the central channel, achieving a synthesis greater then the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sum of the two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sides, because the central channel has no power of its own,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> only that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> supplied from the two sides. But when the two sides unify
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> into the center,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that is when transcendence happens.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I expect the bicameral structure of the brain might be also
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mapped to this ancient system.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://www.freemeditationnz.com/our-three-energy-channels.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 25, 2016, Ian Livingston
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My neuropsych profs were eager to caution that we have now
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> reached such a deep understanding of the brain and its
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> functions that we can
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> at last say with confidence that we know almost nothing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Joseph Tracy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes I read those reviews. What I am finding so far is that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> book is very careful to build its picture of how the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> hemispheres work from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> data. Every step of the way, he draws on research and is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> very careful so far
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not to overreach and to include differing takes on that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> data. One of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> things he points out is that brain science is with current
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> technology and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps will always be a matter of intelligent
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation since it deals
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with qualities and actions for which quantification makes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> little sense, like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> empathy, unjustified self confidence, manual grasping
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> behaviors etc. Also it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is almost impossible to really track the mechanisms
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> involved( if they really
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are of a mechanistic nature) because they take place in a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> living organism.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So brain scans give correspondences between activities and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brain metabolism
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but not clearly detailed causal relationships. Also many
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mental processes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> draw on both sides of the brain which he frequently reminds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stlll, I think any reader will be surprised and amazed at
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wealth and specificity of the data and how much can be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningfully and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> confidently understood about the hemispheric differences. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> know I am.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It is true that he is trying to say something
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophically
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> profound and that is always dangerous terrain, though I have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> not gotten to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the heart of that part of the text. The question is whether
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is enough
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> data to support it. So far the data base is so rich that the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> book cannot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> fail to leave a powerful imprint and sense of enriched
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding for me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 25, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Paul Mackin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of a number of favorable reviews, this one glowing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> However a couple of reviewers according to Wikipedia
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cautioned against
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> culture and psychology conclusions getting too far ahead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of hard brain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> science.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/02/1
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 6:39 AM, Mark Kohut
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You're gonna want your cause and effect, eh?"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since his first book is entitled Against Criticism, I hope
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't IN GR--
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'll mic drop in advance. ......
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just a little metajoke there, heh, heh.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 8:10 PM, Joseph Tracy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently reading Iain McGilchrist’s The Master and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emissary
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the most scientifically, psychologically and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophically profound books I have ever read. It really
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> has me reeling
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with information and insight and makes sense of so much
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that seems
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inscrutable in human history and personal behavior. I came
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> across the title
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a description with a brief quote while doing research
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on another book.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seemed the more intriguing book so I got it from the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> library. Will be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking for a used copy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The topic is the roles of the 2 hemispheres of the brain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he brings together an unexpected wealth of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> medical/scientific research, both
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contemprary and historic to build a very powerful picture
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the nature of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> each hemisphere, as well as the evolutionary logic of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their differentiation.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both from the introduction and from some peeks ahead I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know he has a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophic intention that argues for a greater balance in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our cultural
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, and greater awareness of the brain-structure
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> origins of those
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a Pynchon reader POV McGilchrist takes on the brain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> structure basis of major themes and historic tendencies
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that appear
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the body of P’s work. Essentially it is about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the division in the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> brain between left hemisphere’s tendency to seek and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> produce control
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> achieved through manipulable units of thought,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> communication, structure,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacture and the right brain’s holistic,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> individualistic and socially
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> empathic style. ( there is no way to adequadetly summarize
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this or the pages
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of precise information derived from scientific research).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This struggle
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> appers in all P books and with profound starkness in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon’s essay on CP
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Snow, and the GR theme of mechanistic control vs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature/pursuit of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bliss/personal freedom, humane solidarity.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The writer’s background for this book is about as good as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible. Professional Psychiatrist specializing in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> physiological brain
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues, a researcher in neuro-imaging and an Oxford
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> English teacher 3 times
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> elected Fellow at All Souls College. Of equal or greater
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance is the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> originality of his brilliance and the humane depth of his
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quest to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand how our brain structure fits into our historic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> his sense that understanding these things might free us to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> find a better way
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> forward.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone else read it?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 462 pgs of text and over 100 of end notes etc.-
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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