Ms. Oates wanted to comment on two of our threads.

Sun Jan 3 16:21:27 CST 2016

Joyce Carol Oates ‏@JoyceCarolOates  7m7 minutes ago

In Shakespeare, great precision of speech uttered as if
"naturally"--not artificial or euphemistic. so too w/ great
filmmakers.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 5:00 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> I was kind of surprised that I liked it as much as I did. Must have caught me in a strange mood.
>
> LK
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: David Morris
>
> Sent: Jan 3, 2016 4:57 PM
>
> To: "kelber at mindspring.com"
>
> Subject: Re: NP: David Lynch Reading
>
> I couldn't get past the first half of Tree of Life.  Its pretensions almost made me ill. I guess we have very different concepts of pretension.  Malick feels like a preacher to me, all answers, and sickly sweet ones to boot.
> David Morris
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 4:10 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Are great directors rated solely by ego and/or pretentiousness? Both Quarantino and Lynch qualify in that case.
> I like my directors entertaining, though I do like Terrence Malick's vision. Loved Tree of Life, and I'm looking forward to seeing his new one.
> Two names that haven't been mentioned:
>
> Samuel Fuller - his films teeter on the edge of schlock, but for the most part, regain their footing, due to his style and viewpoint. Best: Pickup on South Street (1953), Underworld U.S.A. (1961) and the amazingly lurid/artistic Shock Corrider (1963). A scene from the latter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpuJaTA7Txk
> Val Lewton - a producer, not a director, but the directors did his bidding. Best: Cat People (1942), I Walked With a Zombie (1943).
> Kubrick, Hitchcock, David Lean and Billy Wilder are my favorites.
> What, no women? So few women directors have been able to get the funding and backing to make more than 5 feature, narrative movies, it's no wonder they don't appear on "great director" lists. Imagine taking a random sampling of male directors who've only been able to make 3-5 low budget movies during their long careers, and see what you get.
> Two who often make those lists I absolutely detest: Lina Wertmuller (ugh!) and Sofia Coppola (nepotism at its worst!). I sort of liked the strange, in-your-face polemic, One Sings, the Other Doesn't by Agnes Varda, but didn't care for Vagabond. I should rewatch it, though. Kathryn Bigelow has made 9 features to date, but, aside from Hurt Locker, I'm underwhelmed. Jane Campion's probably the best-known of all the directors, but I've only seen The Piano (which I liked, but didn't love). Gillian Armstrong is probably the most prolific (10 theatrical release narrative features, to date). I liked My Brilliant Career, but haven't seen any of her others.
> I've been trying to compile a list of best English-language woman-directed films, and/or directors to watch. Here's what I have so far:
> Best women directors:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
> I Shot Andy Warhol (1996) – Mary Harron (4
> features)
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> American Psycho (2000)
>
> The Notorious Bettie Page (2005)
>
>
>
> Ratcatcher (1999) – Lynne Ramsay (3 features)
>
> Morvern Callar (2002)
>
> We Need To Talk About Kevin (2011)
>
>
>
> Fish Tank (2009) – Andrea Arnold (4 features)
>
> Wuthering Heights (2011)
>
>
>
> Wendy and Lucy (2008) - Kelly Reichardt – (6
> features)
>
> Meek’s Cutoff (2010)
> Honorable Mention:
>
>
> Frida (2002) - Julie Taymor (5 features). I haven't seen her Shakespeare films. Orlando (1992) – Sally Potter (7 features) Orlando is worth the watch. Potter is very experimental, but most of her experiments fail.
>
>
> Winter’s
> Bone – (2010) Debra Granik (2 features) This film launched Jennifer Lawrence's career, but Granik struggles to get her projects funded.
>
>
>
> Boys Don’t Cry (1999) – Kimberly Peirce (3
> features)
>
>  Eve’s Bayou (1997) – Kasi Lemmons (4 features) Please Give (2010) - Nicole Holofcener (5 features)
> Newcomers I'd like to see more from:
>
>
> The Diary of a Teenage Girl (2015) – Marielle
> Heller (1 feature)
>
>
> It Felt Like Love (2013) – Eliza Hittman (1 feature)
> Dee Rees shows promise, though I didn't care much for Paraiah.
> Laura
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Steven Koteff
>
> Sent: Jan 3, 2016 3:22 PM
>
> To: Johnny Marr
>
> Cc: Mark Kohut , Erik Burns , Jemmy Bloocher , John Bailey , P-list , Douglas Holm
>
> Subject: Re: NP: David Lynch Reading
>
>
>
> Ozu, Kurosawa, Varda, Godard, Ray all have multiple entries on the non-oeuvre list. A lot of the others mentioned (Sissasoko, Hara, Denis) are not quite on my radar but will definitely look into everything mentioned here.
> On Jan 3, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Johnny Marr  wrote:
>
> How about Ozu for a less Western style of film making (although some of his early 1930s films, before he found his definite style, are heavily indebted to America)? Also a great way to remember Setsuo Hara - those films can be an acquired taste, but you'll instantly recognise the artistic calibre and once you gain a feel for Ozu you'll never look back.
> For African cinema, I'd recommend Sissasoko, with Timbuktu a recent career high point.
>
> On Sunday, January 3, 2016, Mark Kohut  wrote:
> Not Enuff yet.
>
> Sukorov, I'd watch every Sukorov twice.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Mark Kohut  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I meant Rohmer when I wrote Chabrol which shows how much I could
>
>> learn by doing this.
>
>>
>
>> Enuff,
>
>> Cheers
>
>>
>
>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:52 AM, Johnny Marr  wrote:
>
>>> The BFI in London have just started a full retrospective of Godard's work.
>
>>> Last year they treated us to (among others) Rohmer, Welles, Tarkovsky and
>
>>> Hou Hsiao-Hsien, all stunning.
>
>>>
>
>>> One of the big American film institutions recently programmed a joint David
>
>>> Lynch/Jacques Rivette season (I think curated by Dennis Lim) which must have
>
>>> been extraordinary.
>
>>>
>
>>> I'm a Bresson devotee, although I don't think all of his work is easy to
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>>> obtain. Dreyer as well, especially if you want to explore early cinema.
>
>>>
>
>>> Best female directors for a career retrospective would probably be Akerman
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>>> (hugely difficult to obtain, ICA in London staged a career retrospective
>
>>> over the course of two and a half years), Varda or Claire Denis.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> On Sunday, January 3, 2016, Erik Burns  wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> I'd add John Sayles. And Alex Cox.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ________________________________
>
>>>> From: Jemmy Bloocher
>
>>>> Sent: ‎1/‎3/‎2016 10:36
>
>>>> To: Mark Kohut
>
>>>> Cc: Steven Koteff; John Bailey; P-list; Douglas Holm
>
>>>> Subject: Re: NP: David Lynch Reading
>
>>>>
>
>>>> To go with Allen, Whit Stillman?
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>>>>
>
>>>> I also loved Wim Wenders circa Paris, Texas. I've only seen Wong's
>
>>>> Chungking Express (loved it) so unsure of his stinkers (unless that is one
>
>>>> and I'm way off-base).
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On 3 Jan 2016 10:14, "Mark Kohut"  wrote:
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> How 'bout one great documentarian? Reality bites.
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>>>>>
>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 4:40 AM, Mark Kohut  wrote:
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>>>>> > Misc. Next volume of Callow's Welles is coming out this year.
>
>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > Women: consider Agnes Varda. And, yes, Jane Campion. Ida Lupino's
>
>>>>> > couple--three films?
>
>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > So, Allen is your weak choice to contrast? Like having to have
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>>>>> > informed opinions about Hitchcock?
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > No Godard? THE one I would commit to were I to commit.
>
>>>>> > Along with Ray,  and/or Ozu. And Kurosawa . And, yes, Linklater. And
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>>>>> > Kiarostrami. And Lee.
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>>>>> >  All white guys and girls---
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>>>>> > talking about myself here---should see more Lee. imho.
>
>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > How about placing a guy like Ken Loach in context? How much art, how
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>>>>> > much cause and sociology?
>
>>>>> > Remember AMERICA unfolds w studio genre creations, if America seen is
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>>>>> > a subgoal.(which it isn't, i just reread)
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> > No Truffaut? And I'd watch Chabrol over Melville. But that's me.
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > In the circles, I have circled, I have needed my strong opinions about
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>>>>> > Hitchcock. Perhaps
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>>>>> > We all do.
>
>>>>> > Your list is, of course, a high-minded one. Wilsonian ( per recent
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>>>>> > post). Kind I like
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>>>>> > But not most folk...but this is the plist.
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> > Watch some bad movies too. Just sayin'.
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>>>>> > Then there are the Royal Shakespeare Company productions of
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>>>>> > Shakespeare. (joke, sorta) which I may do.
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > Do a book--blog first? Our Year of Watching Movies. (or Film, first
>
>>>>> > discussion) New trend in books.
>
>>>>> > and I'm not prescribing with anything above, just projecting my own
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>>>>> > self, mostly.
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > Except I am saying if you are anywhere near NYC's Film Forum you MUST
>
>>>>> > SEE Chimes at Midnight, one of the greatest
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>>>>> > movies ever made, in ownership dispute limbo for a long time and if it
>
>>>>> > now plays elsewhere, just go.
>
>>>>> > Still my fave Shakespeare film and Welles.
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > And, more topically, see The Big Short and Spotlight while they are
>
>>>>> > "in the conversation", as well as Lee.
>
>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > Back to reading I go. Up against movies, reading's through unless we
>
>>>>> > keep it alive.
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> > my answer re Malick. No, he answers Christian apologetics in ways
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>>>>> > Heidegger did, whom he studied or wrote a
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>>>>> > diss on or whatever...
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> > Some of your directors offer a nice chance to explore the 'ideas' vs.
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>>>>> > 'life' in art question.
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> >
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>>>>> > Sent from my iPadudio
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>>>>> >
>
>>>>> >> On Jan 2, 2016, at 10:33 PM, John Bailey  wrote:
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>>>>> >>
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>>>>> >> Geez, Herzog will keep you busy. But Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo,
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>>>>> >> absolutely unforgettable.
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>>>>> >>
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>>>>> >> Will you be viewing each oeuvre chronologically?
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>>>>> >>
>
>>>>> >> Women I can think of that might make it onto a similar list would be
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>>>>> >> Claire Denis, Kathryn Bigelow (big contrast across her career), Jane
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>>>>> >> Campion, Chantal Akerman (RIP).
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>>>>> >>
>
>>>>> >>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Douglas Holm  wrote:
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>>>>> >>> What a great list!!!
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> I forgot Herzog, though I don't like him all that much, but he is
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>>>>> >>> significant as a genre bender.
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> Corns, of course.
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> Mallick is interesting but more for his influence (Revenant) than his
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>>>>> >>> achievement ... Is he a Christian apologist? I can't tell, but it's
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>>>>> >>> an
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>>>>> >>> interesting discussion.
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> I love Linklater ... Almost put him on the list, but didn't think of
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>>>>> >>> him
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>>>>> >>> until after "send " .... Great subject for further research.
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> I've been wanting to get into Barhrani since Ebert went out on a limb
>
>>>>> >>> for
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>>>>> >>> him after his first film a decade ago.
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> Great list!!!
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 6:49 PM, Steven Koteff
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>>>>> >>> wrote:
>
>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> Thanks so much for all the input so far. Definitely going to buy the
>
>>>>> >>> Lynch
>
>>>>> >>> on Lynch and will probably get the Lim book, too.
>
>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> We made the list on New Year's Eve, and it took several hours to do,
>
>>>>> >>> and was
>
>>>>> >>> great fun. Lots of arguments, diplomatic choices, etc. Like our own
>
>>>>> >>> little
>
>>>>> >>> climate talks.
>
>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> We ended up making choices that were some balance between directors
>
>>>>> >>> we were
>
>>>>> >>> interested in seeing for ourselves, directors we wanted the other
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>>>>> >>> person to
>
>>>>> >>> see, and directors that felt uniquely important (or at least unique).
>
>>>>> >>> I
>
>>>>> >>> consider myself almost shockingly overschooled in post-1980 American
>
>>>>> >>> cinema
>
>>>>> >>> and really underschooled in pre-1980 American cinema plus most
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>>>>> >>> non-American
>
>>>>> >>> stuff. There's not quite as much stuff on there that will fill those
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>>>>> >>> gaps as
>
>>>>> >>> I'd like, which we are addressing in two ways:
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> One is that we are acknowledging we will just have to leave a few
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>>>>> >>> until
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>>>>> >>> 2017.
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>>>>> >>> Two is that we have an addendum list of directors with one or several
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>>>>> >>> movies
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>>>>> >>> we consider important to see, but who we are not totally committing
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>>>>> >>> to this
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>>>>> >>> year. E.g. The Seventh Seal is on the list, but Bergman's entire
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>>>>> >>> ouevre is
>
>>>>> >>> not (maybe in 2017).
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> Here's the list of we ended up with:
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>>>>> >>> Lynch
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>>>>> >>> Kubrick
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>>>>> >>> Herzog
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>>>>> >>> Todd Solondz
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>>>>> >>> Coen Bros.
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>>>>> >>> John Waters
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>>>>> >>> Terrence Malick
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>>>>> >>> Linklater
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>>>>> >>> Ramin Bahrani
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>>>>> >>> Woody Allen
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> Some of the choices are matters of convenience. Bahrani is young and
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>>>>> >>> unique,
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>>>>> >>> worth seeing in his own right (as I insisted) but also only has a few
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>>>>> >>> movies
>
>>>>> >>> out, which counterbalances Allen/Herzog nicely.
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> Longlist included, off the top of my head: Gilliam, Ray, Bergman,
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>>>>> >>> Fellini,
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>>>>> >>> Welles, Spike Lee, Aronofsky, buncha others.
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>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>> Definitely lots of glaring omissions. It obviously skews
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>>>>> >>> contemporary,
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>>>>> >>> American, white. No women on the list, which is really kind of
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>>>>> >>> unforgivable.
>
>>>>> >>> We had Sofia Coppola and a few others on the long list. If anybody
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>>>>> >>> has any
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>>>>> >>> recommendations to that end I'd be very interested.
>
>>>>> >>>
>
>>>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 8:09 PM, Douglas Holm  wrote:
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>> All the Mississippi interview books and the Faber and Faber books
>
>>>>> >>>> are a
>
>>>>> >>>> good mix of biography and aesthetics.
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>> Suggested directors for your project could include:
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>> Fincher
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>>>>> >>>> Hitchcock
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>>>>> >>>> Sophia Coppola
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>>>>> >>>> Wes and PT Anderson
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>>>>> >>>> Tarantino (lots of books on him ... I did two of them)
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>>>>> >>>> Jill Sprecher
>
>>>>> >>>> Ophuls
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>>>>> >>>> Nick Ray
>
>>>>> >>>> Sam Fuller
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>>>>> >>>> Renoir
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>>>>> >>>> Truffaut
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>>>>> >>>> Melville
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>>>>> >>>> Kurosawa
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>>>>> >>>> Mizoguchi
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>>>>> >>>> Tarkovsky
>
>>>>> >>>> Bergman
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 4:54 PM, Douglas Holm  wrote:
>
>>>>> >>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>> There's a new book by Dennis Lim, late of the Village Voice.
>
>>>>> >>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>> http://www.amazon.com/David-Lynch-Another-Place-Icons/dp/0544343751
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
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>>>>> >>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 2, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Steven Koteff
>
>>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>> A month or two ago I asked if anybody could recommend a Kubrick
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>>>>> >>>>>> bio and
>
>>>>> >>>>>> you guys were all helpful (went with the Lobrutto, Mark T's rec).
>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>> I'm no wondering if anybody has a particular book (or books) on
>
>>>>> >>>>>> Lynch
>
>>>>> >>>>>> to recommend. Biography is desired. If the writer is insightful
>
>>>>> >>>>>> about
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>>>>> >>>>>> Lynch's work that'd be a plus but I guess I'm a bit more
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>>>>> >>>>>> interested in Lynch
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>>>>> >>>>>> the guy, as person and artist. Want insight into what made the guy
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>>>>> >>>>>> make the
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>>>>> >>>>>> work.
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>>>>> >>>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>> My girlfriend and I made a list of ten directors whose work we
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>>>>> >>>>>> want to
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>>>>> >>>>>> see all of, in order, before 2017. We're starting with Lynch.
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>>>>> >>>>>> Ideally I'd
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>>>>> >>>>>> like to read up on each director while we are watching his/her
>
>>>>> >>>>>> stuff so I
>
>>>>> >>>>>> will be checking back in.
>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>
>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks in advance. -
>
>>>>> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>>>>> >>>>> -
>
>>>>> >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>>>>> >> -
>
>>>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
>>>>> -
>
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l