Dame Eileen Atkins on one of 'our' Pynchonian topic

[Gary Webb]

Also, Frenesi & Brock Vond on Vineland.... And Maxine and Nick Windust in Bleeding Edge... It's an interesting topic, and I don't think Pynchon is the type of author that will lionize his leading man/woman. We are all susceptible, and most of us will succumb, to form of corruption. With Frenesi this susceptibility is Tragic, where as Maxine is a PI, and true to form most PIs succumb to the Femme fatale 

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> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The movie version of Inherent Vice frames the spanking scene w Shasta and Doc with the definition of Inherent Vice, which I thought was kinda interesting. As if it trying to say submission is an inherent vice. I don't recall the context in which it was presented in the novel, it was Sauncho who brings it up but I'm the movie it is Shasta and Sortilege who defines it. 
> 
> But there is a much better and more beautiful passage in 2666 near the end of it. Archimboldi's lover, Ingeborg, who is dying, sneaks out at night to wander the woods and gaze at the stars. Archimboldi finds her, he is relieved and holds her in his arms but she wriggles out and begins to tell him about the stars and the past, how the dead light of the stars is all around them. 
> 
> "All this light is dead," said Ingeborg. "All this light was emitted thousands and millions of years ago. It's the past, do you see? When these stars cast their light, we didn't exist, life on Earth didn't exist, even Earth didn't exist. This light was cast a long time ago. It's the past, we're surrounded by the past, everything that no longer exists or exists only in memory or guesswork is there now, above us, shining on the mountains and the snow and we can't do anything to stop it."
> 
> Adding the two together, throw some evolution into the mix and an exhaustive history of men dominating women and might be that explains it. Meaning that maybe it isn't that women inherently wish to be subjugated but that it has been programmed into us by the past. Just a hunch.
> 
> And another thing to keep in mind, ISIS attracts many more males than females. 
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, January 16, 2016, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "The Taming of the Shrew' is an awkward play for gender relations But
>> there are still a lot of women who would marry a man such as
>> Petruchio, and get treated as Katherina does – and enjoy being told to
>> go into the kitchen and shut up! I just don't think you can block out
>> the idea that some women desire subjugation. I'm getting into
>> dangerous waters here, but the fact that Isis can attract women to go
>> to a life in which they know they will be totally subjugated, I'm
>> afraid shows that there is something in the female psyche which
>> desires that."
>> 
>> Re: Taming of the Shrew. I love Germaine Greer on it, arguing,
>> Katherine gives as good as she subjugates and Petruchio feels THAT,
>> ah, humbling?.
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
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