BtZ42 the Oven chapter

[David Morris]

GR and V both play with the concept of decadence, which is I guess what you
mean by "degradation of spirit."  He is portraying what he saw as societal
root flaws in these examples of decadence.  In V. his morality is aghast at
Esther's abortion.  Such nearly fundamentalist judgements are surprising
for one so obviously nimble of mind.  Calling such characterizations
"signifiers" doesn't excuse their insults to those being portrayed thus.
If he had portrayed blacks in a bad light, as dumb or callous except for
their appetites, would he be excused?  His only excuse is immaturity of
perspective for a probable myriad of reasons.  He is forgiven because of
all the beautiful things that overshadow his errors.

He was amazing, but not perfect.

David Morris

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> In GR homosexuality serves as a signifier of degradation of spirit. The
> focus is on extremes of submission and dominance as though that were
> defining attributes of same gender male love. This  oversimplification has
> obviously changed by the tme he writes ATD. In V one could easily see
> implications of mysogyny.  It seems by the later writing gays and women can
> be heroic or they can be criminal jerks.  Gender or Sexual preference is no
> longer the same kind of indicator.
>
> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 8:00 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, his take on gays back then was badly flawed. So what? He ain't
> perfect, then nor now. Who is?
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > Copying and pasting Mark's question in case anybody didn't make it to
> the bottom of his message. I don't necessarily think the answer to the
> enveloping question is yes, but I think it's important to think with
> clarity, caution, courage about what the answer might be.
> >
> > MK: What's with TRP and gays? Does this 'attitude'--is it part of his
> vision and how?---date (and weaken)
> > GR?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:07 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > What's with TRP and gays? Does this 'attitude'--is it part of his
> vision and how?---date (and weaken)
> > > GR?
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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