BtZ42 the Oven chapter

[Mark Kohut]

Nothing reprehensible but not the Shakespeare of his time if so, right?
---"of his time and for all time"--Jonson on Shakespeare

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 2:16 AM, János Széky <miksaapja at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think his views on gays (or LMBT) changed with the times, which is
> nothing reprehensible. From late 50s-early 60s hostility (as in the Paris
> chapter of V.) through mild satire (COL49) to trying to empathize (early
> GR) to empathy (late GR). After all, he began writing this before
> Stonewall, and finished it *after* Stonewall.
>
> Back to the Oven. I've always seen it ('always" meaning since I grasped
> the basic structure and semiotics of the book) not as an outside reference
> (to the Holocaust) but as an inside signifier. That is, the Oven is simply
> the manned Rocket.  The fate of Gottfried as a human sacrifice s to be
> enclosed in it and finally burned in it . (Maybe because I'm Hungarian,
> where the words for 'baked', 'fried' and 'roasted' are one and the same,
> I've also sensed a sadistic pun in the name Gottfried.) This is the central
> Dark Secret, which comes to be revealed only in the end, but there are
> allusions all through the book. And Katje is familiar with Blicero's design
> from the beginning. And there are actually two rockets (the one launched at
> the end, and the one called 0001). So what is happening here is Katje
> realizing clearly she is intended for the other rocket (she is Gretchen for
> the Kinderofen), and escaping her fate.
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Mentes
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>
> 2016-06-22 2:00 GMT+02:00 David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>:
>
>> Yes, his take on gays back then was badly flawed. So what? He ain't
>> perfect, then nor now. Who is?
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Copying and pasting Mark's question in case anybody didn't make it to
>>> the bottom of his message. I don't necessarily think the answer to the
>>> enveloping question is yes, but I think it's important to think with
>>> clarity, caution, courage about what the answer might be.
>>>
>>> MK: What's with TRP and gays? Does this 'attitude'--is it part of his
>>> vision and how?---date (and weaken)
>>> GR?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:07 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > What's with TRP and gays? Does this 'attitude'--is it part of his
>>> vision and how?---date (and weaken)
>>> > GR?
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
>
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