A point-by-point breakdown of the first half of that book I was telling you about.

[Allan Balliett]

On Monday, March 7, 2016, Allan Balliett <allan.balliett at gmail.com> wrote:

> Probably the Yankees
>
> Allan in WV which was stolen from VA by Yankees
>
> On Monday, March 7, 2016, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.kohut at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Not self-published. Real publisher. Usually OP now means a rights
>> problem. Whoever owns the rights is in dispute or is saying No.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't quite follow all of this, maybe because I don't know all of the
>>> backstory. I'm deep into the book now, and it is fascinating, as gripping
>>> as any thriller. Not being in the publishing industry, I wanted to ask if
>>> the reason it's out of print is possibly because it needs a lot of work?
>>> Lots of typos and maybe some editing, as well. Has the feel of being
>>> self-published...
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:45 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Oglesby
>>>>
>>>> Jerky throws us a VERY anarchic curve ball. Looking to refresh myself
>>>> and learn more
>>>> about Carl Oglesby, I go to wikipedia. Then it gets interesting.
>>>>
>>>> Notice that Kirkpatrick Sale, TRP's old buddy is quoted about Carl's
>>>> famous anti-
>>>> war speech in late November 1965. Means he was there. We know TRP later
>>>> has a letter about not attending another one but one wonders if he was
>>>> at this one.
>>>> Close to Sales then, publishing recently in mainstream stuff--SEPost
>>>> and
>>>> NYTimes Mag soon after because Sales. And writing and publishing Lot
>>>> 49.
>>>>
>>>> But even more interesting to me. Look at the way Carl's blend of
>>>> political ideas
>>>> differs from standard SDS, new Left thinking. (He was to be driven out
>>>> of a
>>>> leadership position because he would not track standard
>>>> Marxist--Leninist
>>>> Left notions, this sez.) ...Now, a PS first: who else's social
>>>> critiques as we pick
>>>> them out in our reading aren't standard Marxist?-- as we've said here.
>>>> (This is only associative non-logic I know but keep following the
>>>> bouncing ball).
>>>>
>>>> Speculate with me more: as outlined here, Carl's eclectic mix of ideas--
>>>> might remind of emblematic scenes from Lot 49??...the Young Americans
>>>> for Freedom,
>>>> Oedipa's present; libertarianism = cousin of anarchism in that work;
>>>> the scene
>>>> about having one's ideas corporatized in Lot 49; Carl's strong
>>>> anti-bureaucracy strain,--
>>>> (Heavy in GR, of course) The John Birch Society nod in Lot 49-as nod to
>>>> freedom.
>>>> And more.
>>>>  "in a strong sense, the Old Right
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Right_(United_States)> and the New
>>>> Left <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left> are morally and
>>>> politically coordinate":[5]
>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Oglesby#cite_note-5>
>>>> I suggest there is OLD RIGHT in Lot 49 under political lensing.
>>>>
>>>> And remember decades later in the Slow Learner introduction how TRP
>>>> said the New Left
>>>> failed to connect with real worker's concerns so failed.
>>>>
>>>> Bet they all thought it out together, separately, TRP and Kirkpatrick
>>>> closest thinking partners
>>>> then....
>>>>
>>>> Why is this book OP?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e_-FeN3GSFM/TYp3fVfrrZI/AAAAAAAAAHk/iKNxRJs4rW0/s1600/YankeeCowboyWar.jpg>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *KONSPIRACY KLASSICS CORNER!*
>>>>>
>>>>> *THE YANKEE AND COWBOY WAR*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Astonishing Link between the JFK Assassination and the deposing
>>>>> of Nixon *
>>>>>
>>>>> *Conspiracies from Dallas to Watergate and Beyond*
>>>>>
>>>>> *by Carl Oglesby*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A few years back, a friend loaned me his copy of *Carl Oglesby*'s *The
>>>>> Yankee and Cowboy War*, and after reading it I was stunned that I had
>>>>> previously neither read it nor even heard about it. I found it both moving
>>>>> and profoundly impressive. In his masterful dissection of the mid-70's
>>>>> American political milieu, Oglesby gives us nothing less than an absolutely
>>>>> convincing operating model of the forces clashing behind the scenes in
>>>>> post-World War II America, as well as a detailed diagnosis of exactly where
>>>>> and why things went terribly wrong. He presents valuable ideas that have
>>>>> found their way into the works of later authors, most notably *Sidney
>>>>> Blumenthal*, whose 1986 best-seller *The Rise of the
>>>>> Counter-Establishment* reads almost like a sequel.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe The Yankee Cowboy War is essential reading for anyone
>>>>> searching for honest answers about the origins of our current condition.
>>>>> Unfortunately, the book is long out of print. I also understand that most
>>>>> of you reading this are busy people who don't have time to read every
>>>>> worthy book that there is to read. Therefore, I have decided to use this
>>>>> space to publish my "reading notes", taken during my second reading, so
>>>>> that interested parties can get the gist of the book's main theses, the
>>>>> numerous topics it covers, as well as the individuals and events discussed
>>>>> in it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be posting these reading notes periodically over the next few
>>>>> days. Obviously, this is a poor substitute for reading the book, itself,
>>>>> but it's a decent primer, and for the researcher in a hurry, it should do
>>>>> in a pinch. Watch for further installments, coming soon!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *PART ONE: THE CLANDESTINE ELITES*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · *Watergate* and the *JFK* assassination were not isolated
>>>>> incidents, but linked parts of a secret war between two American Elites:
>>>>> the *Yankees* (Eastern Establishment) and the *Cowboys* (Sunbelt, New
>>>>> Money, Counter-Establishment).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · A hidden drama of coup and counter-coup, intrinsically linked
>>>>> conspiracies, inner oligarchic power sphere, invisible gov’t, above the
>>>>> law, beyond moral rule… a clandestine American state, embryonic police
>>>>> state.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · *Operation Garden Plot*, *COINTELPRO*, *Operation Chaos*.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · *CIA* contracting *ITT* to oust *Allende* in Chile is an example of
>>>>> ruthlessness, just like crimes and cover-up at Dealy Plaza and the
>>>>> Watergate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · What are the origins of these internal government divisions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. CIA intel division vs. CIA operational division.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Pentagon vs. FBI
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. CIA vs. Pentagon
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. CIA vs. FBI
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. POTUS and all of the above
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Destabilization of the post-Reconstruction unity, which, in turn,
>>>>> was made stronger by *FDR* in the WWII period (post-war consensus).
>>>>> 60’s, 70’s tumult.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · The intensification of clandestine, illicit measures against racial
>>>>> and anti-war dissent coincided with the use of these methods within the
>>>>> state as post-war consensus failed.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Dallas/Watergate: breakdown of the incumbent national coalition…
>>>>> Greater Northeast powers with the greater Southwest powers, the post-Civil
>>>>> War, post-Reconstruction coalition, the New Deal, the Yankees and Cowboys.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Cold War tensions between two separate and distinct and
>>>>> contradictory domains of World Historical Truth: Northeast “détente” and
>>>>> Southwest “militarism”.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · In Europe, we could evidently live with communism, whereas in the
>>>>> Third World, we evidently could not. “Spheres of “détente and violence”… an
>>>>> untenable paradox.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · When it became clear that the USA couldn’t win militarily in the
>>>>> Third World without risking war in the North Atlantic, consensus dissolved.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Dallas, Nov 22, was an elite power collision, both sensed and real.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Dichotomous Disunity: The Southwest was pro-escalation, on balance,
>>>>> Frontierist, taking the China-lobby position.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Dichotomous Disunity: The Northeast was pro-pullback, on balance,
>>>>> Atlanticist, CFR, NATO-conscious position.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · YANKEES:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. David Rockefeller
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Ivy League
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Exclusive clubs of Manhattan, Boston and Georgetown
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. CFR, Round Table
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Eleanor Roosevelt
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. The Dulles Brothers
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. Massive Retaliation Doctrine
>>>>>
>>>>> 8. The Kennedys
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · COWBOYS:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Howard Hughes
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. NFL
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Exclusive clubs of New Orleans, Dallas and Orange County (both
>>>>> sides)
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. LBJ
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Conally and Hunt
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Bay of Pigs team
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. Nixon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · The persistence of Civil War splits in the current situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · *Carroll Quigley* had already talked of these themes before Oglesby
>>>>> in his *Tragedy and Hope*.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Disintegration of Wall Street influence as the Southwest and Far
>>>>> West influence increase, commensurate with a dissolving of the Middle Class
>>>>> and a rise in bourgeoisie.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Northeast Establishment: Semi-aristocratic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Southwest Counter-Establishment: Petit Bourgeois.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Southwestern money was dependent on government investment: oil,
>>>>> military, aviation, space, natural resources. This is a paradox.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Oglesby argues that the Atlanticist / Frontierist split is primal,
>>>>> and that it runs under everything… 1960.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · YANKEE:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Global Scope
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. At home in the Great World
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Regards it as a whole, in context
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Good World Order = Relations with allies
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Relations with Western Democracies
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. USA seen as a continuation of Europe’s culture
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. Europe as key world theater
>>>>>
>>>>> 8. Fate of USA linked with Europe
>>>>>
>>>>> 9. White cultural destiny transcending boundaries of nation
>>>>>
>>>>> 10. The West = One World
>>>>>
>>>>> 11. Monopolists who broke faith with the Vietnam project because of
>>>>> the high probability of failure
>>>>>
>>>>> 12. Monopolist East Coast Establishment
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · COWBOY:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Ties to Europe NOT obvious
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Old World vs. New World
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Rejects Atlanticism in favor of Frontierism
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Expanding wilderness frontier and “Pacific strategy”
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Cowboy entrepreneurs fought to keep faith alive because of the
>>>>> necessity of success
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Tycoon (Western)
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. They supported *Johnson* and *Nixon* all the way towards a final
>>>>> military solution
>>>>>
>>>>> 8. “Only the strong survive”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · What were the roots of the union in the first place? The
>>>>> frontier which allowed for the continued emergence of  entrepreneurs long
>>>>> after the establishment of the first monopolies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Marx never studied states that had so much frontier.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · The frontier was a reprieve for democracy… and capitalism! All it
>>>>> took was genocide.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Energies of expansion took two centuries… finally taking Alaska and
>>>>> Hawaii. We have no way of knowing how important this expansionism was in
>>>>> keeping the natural American Cowboy/Yankee divide under control.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · The success of various Asian revolutionary movements proved a
>>>>> perplexing dilemma to the USA. With Asians successfully defending
>>>>> themselves as self-modernizing, post-colonial entities against American
>>>>> influence, America had run out of frontier.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · To comprehend the assassination of JFK (as with Lincoln) is to
>>>>> understand a basic event in modern government. It’s a necessity to
>>>>> understand… an “absolute pre-condition” to self-government, the first step
>>>>> towards the restoration of a legitimate state.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> · Today’s frontier is the fact that there is no more frontier.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *PART TWO COMING SOON!*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> www.innergroovemusic.com
>>>
>>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20160307/64ac71cb/attachment.html>