BE -- "death wish for the planet" why the internet?

[David Morris]

"In organized crime a very simple priciple is at work and is very
effective: bind members to an oath of secrecy, make their membership pay,
kill anyone and their families who squeal."

Like I said, "vast numbers of conspirators are bound to fall apart. Either kill
all who know the conspiracy, or pay them lavishly until they die on their
own."

BTW, the mafia isn't exactly a secret.  And their internal discipline isn't
exactly steel-clad.

"Gary Webb exposing CIA agents"
"Ed Snowden is another example"

Good examples of why vast conspiracies will always fail.

David Morris

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> I do not consider this a very good argument.  The whole world of
> organized criminal activity would be in trouble if it were.  I think there
> are several examples of large scale conspiracies that went virtually
> un-noticed by the rest of the world, the mass killing in the Nazi holocaust
> is a powerful example. It shows 3 things about conspiracies: 1) what the
> newspapers don’t report is not considered real and this means no outrage,
> no response 2) even  victims or an opposing army might have reasons or
> might be coerced to keep silence. 3) ordinary people who witness such
> things will often be ignored as unreliable, or lack the courage to risk
> speaking out.
>   The people directly involved in this massive conspiracy were no
> different than American Skull and Bones or CIA or racist pricks or the
> servicemen who committed atrocities in Vietnam.  Hannah Arendt’s studies
> provide persuasive evidence that huge numbers may be recruited into
> murderous behavior  when it becomes the fundamental policy of the state and
> that behavior is perceived as a combination of self interest and duty.
>   In organized crime a very simple priciple is at work and is very
> effective: bind members to an oath of secrecy, make their membership pay,
> kill anyone and their families who squeal.
>    A more recent example is the case of Gary Webb exposing CIA agents in
> an ongoing criminal conspiracy to fund Contras by drug traffic in black
> neighborhoods .  He worked for a reputable newspaper, his facts were well
> supported, he was right as the CIA quietly admitted later, but the NY Times
> and other media kings didn’t like the story precisely because it smacked of
> loony conspiracy theories. They effectively crushed him.  Neither the CIA
> or its agents were ever punished.
>   Ed Snowden is another example. If not for him we would not have any kind
> of accurate picture of the extent of NSA surveillance. People who are
> willing to risk exile and death are actually pretty rare which is obvious
> since this agency has thousands of employees who knew what Snowden knew.
>
>
> > On Mar 9, 2016, at 2:28 AM, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > Am 08.03.2016 um 23:39 schrieb David Morris:
> >> Thomas Eckhardt said (re. logistics of controlled 9-11
> >> demolition: "Apart from the logistical difficulties such a task would
> >> pose, there would have to be many people involved."
> >>
> >> For me this is another reason vast conspiracy theories are hard to
> >> believe: vast numbers of conspirators are bound to fall apart. Either
> >> kill all who know the conspiracy, or pay them lavishly until they die on
> >> their own.
> >
> > Ernie addresses this point:
> >
> > "The chief argument against conspiracy theories is always that it would
> take too many people in on it, and somebody's sure to squeal. But look at
> the U.S. security apparatus, these guys are WASPs, Mormons, Skull and
> bones, secretive by nature. Trained, sometimes since birth, never to run
> off at the mouth. If discipline exists anywhere, it's among them. So of
> course it's possible." BE, 325.
> >
> > I don't buy this. There are not that many people ruthless enough to
> commit a crime like that IMO, Skull and Bones or not. For controlled
> demolition, furthermore, you would need "mechanics" -- demolition experts
> and the persons actually placing explosives.
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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