BTZ42Read: it has happened before

[János Széky]

Is it too early to ask, Pirate being a proxy dreamer, *whose *dream it is?

2016-03-14 20:15 GMT+01:00 Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>:

> Good point, Monte. Interesting to imagine what it'd be like to read, and
> make sense of, that iconic opener before it is iconic. Before you know
> anything about the book.
>
> Along those lines, it's interesting to think about the word "screaming" in
> terms of, like, why is it the optimal diction not just for thematic
> reasons, or for other arch-reasons, but for illustrative reasons. Like,
> scene-making reasons. Or rather how does that also reveal the grander
> stuff.
>
> Pynchon basically always has the ability to be exactly as linguistically
> precise as he wants. So it's important/purposeful that he doesn't, at
> first, describe what kind of screaming it is. Human. Animal. Mechanic. The
> obscurity is important. But what's also important is the
> immediacy/primality of the vagueness. The "screaming" is the immutable
> character to whatever kind of screaming it is. And it is absolute, and hits
> you all at once. Fills you. It's not just a rocket screaming. It's all
> screaming. That's what hits you first. In a primal, absolute, Jung would
> say archetypal way. It hits your ancestors before it hits your you.
>
> On Mar 14, 2016, at 1:53 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Set aside what you know is coming. On that first page you don't know
> you're in 1944, or London. or that V-2s will play a part in the novel.
>
> You're in an evacuation, in some sort of train, leaving a city, and you
> infer attack from that and the anticipation of glass breaking overhead.
>
>  So *don't be quick assimilate the screaming to a V-2*, and its reversed
> sequence of explosion -> sound of passage. There has been no explosion
> here. On this page the screaming is as likely -= more likely -- to be an
> air-raid siren, or whistles of evacuation trains, or screams of terrified
> citizens.
>
> "It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now."
> That's how things happen in dreams: an event or thing or person is charged
> with significance, but stripped of the tags and flags and links that let us
> categorize waking percepts or compare them to -- well, anything -- for
> plausibility. We're in Pirate's dream. As we will learn later, dreaming
> others' dreams is his specialty (although whether he's receiving,
> transmitting, or both is ambiguous). He's an artist, if only a 'prentice.
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 1:20 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey, wasn't the official group read start date tomorrow? Will we have
>> anything to compare the discussion to then?
>>
>> I take the opening sentences at closer to face value - the prosaic view:
>>
>> A screaming comes across the sky. The V-2 rocket, super-sonic, so its
>> sound is out of kilter with time. "Screaming" reflects that more than "a
>> scream."
>>
>> It has happened before … Again, the prosaic read - if you're hearing the
>> V-2, it's already landed - no need to kiss your ass goodbye.
>>
>>  … but there is nothing to compare it to now. This is the toughest nut to
>> crack.  " … and, therefore, there is nothing to compare it to now," seems a
>> more logical end to the sentence. The word "but" emphasizes the word "now."
>> It implies that when it happened before (when this rocket was launched? Or:
>> whenever these rockets have been launched in the past?) there WAS something
>> to compare it to. So I guess what I'm saying is that the word "but" derails
>> the simplistic V-2 reading. What in hell does Pynchon mean?
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Ray Easton <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com>
>> >Sent: Mar 14, 2016 12:51 PM
>> >To: P-list List <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>> >Subject: BTZ42Read: it has happened before
>> >
>> >How do you (any of you) read the second sentence?
>> >
>> >Ray
>> >
>> >-----
>> >You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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