BtZ42 Read

ish mailian ishmailian at gmail.com
Thu Mar 17 14:43:17 CDT 2016 

And Charles Brockden Brown.

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 3:41 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is film and it is jazz. Giant Steps and Pithecanthropus Erectus.
> And it is Black, not White Negro. Can we say that? It's so cool, so
> Invisible, man, so hip and hop and down. That white boy can play that
> harp.
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 7:29 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bailey and Davis remind me of one of the most open reviewers of GR back
>> when. The good reader-critic
>> scholar Michael Wood, who actually wrote (esp about London in GR) that he
>> could not understand how TRP did it.
>>
>> Ish is right, the book is a pure leap above his earlier work. Sublime.
>>
>> How many works of literary art do we feel this about? Even w many of the
>> great ones, they seem "comprehensible', what
>> we have experienced before perfected but..................GR is different.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sausages hang against the Sky, forming Lines of Text, cryptick Intestinal
>>> Commentary."
>>>
>>> Essence of Pynchon there: comic-grotesque and over the top at first sight
>>> -- and taking on seriousness, even poetic force as you move on to the next
>>> sentence, pulling you back... godDAMN, how did he do that?!?!?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 6:12 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If we're bringing in the opening of chapter 2 of AtD here, then
>>>> there's a direct connection there with chapter 29 of M&D:
>>>>
>>>> "Cities begin upon the day the Walls of the Shambles go up, to screen
>>>> away Blood and Blood-letting, Animals' Cries, Smells and Soil, from
>>>> Residents already grown fragile before Country Realities. The
>>>> Better-Off live far as they may, from the concentration of Slaughter.
>>>> Soon, Country Melancholicks are flocking to Town like Crows, dark'ning
>>>> the Sun. Dress'd Meats appear in the Market,— Sausages hang against
>>>> the Sky, forming Lines of Text, cryptick Intestinal Commentary. The
>>>> Veery Brothers, professional effigy makers, run an establishment south
>>>> of the Shambles at Second and Market Streets, by the Court House.
>>>> Mason, in unabating Search after the Grisly, must pay a Visit.
>>>>
>>>> "Can't just have any old bundle of Rags up there, even if 'tis meant
>>>> to be burnt to ashes, can we," says Cosmo, "— our Mobility like to
>>>> feel they're burning something, don't you see? Oh, we do Jack-Boots
>>>> and Pet¬ticoats, bread-and-butter items the year 'round, yet we strive
>>>> for at least the next order of Magnytude...."
>>>>
>>>> "Here, for example, our Publick Beheading Model,— " adds his brother
>>>> Damian, "or, 'the Topper,' as we like to call it, Key to ev'rything
>>>> being the Neck, o' course, for after you've led them up to the one
>>>> great Moment, how can you disappoint 'em wiv any less than that nice
>>>> sa'isfy-ing Chhhunk! as the Blade strikes, i'n't it, and will pure
>>>> Beeswax do the Job? No,— fine for the Head and whatever, but look what
>>>> you've got to chop at,— spine? throat? muscles in the neck? well,— not
>>>> exactly Wax, is it? So it's on with the old Smock, lovely visit next
>>>> door, scavenging among th' appropriately siz'd Necks for bones and
>>>> suet and such. Then it's up to the Kiddy here to cover it all over and
>>>> give it a Head with a famous, or better Infamous, Face. He's a rare
>>>> Wax Artist, our Cosmo is. Likenesses almost from another World,
>>>> perhaps not a World many of us would find that comfortable. Products
>>>> of the innocent Hive, Sir, and beneath, the refuse of the daily
>>>> Slaughter, yes there you have it, a grisly Amalgam, perhaps even a
>>>> sort of Teaching,— sure you'd enter any dark-en'd Room our lads and
>>>> lasses happen'd to be in, only upon ill advice indeed."
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 2:53 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > That opening scene in GR, a dream from below, a subconscious point of
>>>> > view, as it begins with a scream above, in the sky, and then the focus
>>>> > remains on what is above from the perspective of one who is below, the
>>>> > emotions, fear and anxiety caused by what is above and what will fall
>>>> > on those below, then the movement, and it is a narrowing and a drive
>>>> > deeper below. I think the elevators take the evacuees down, not up,
>>>> > down and away from any possibility of light, of salvation, of being
>>>> > heard, even if they scream.
>>>> >
>>>> > Now P made a book into a film recently, or somebody did it with his
>>>> > OK, and it is, far as I know his first major film, but he worked on
>>>> > film in his youth as I recall reading that at Cornell he was part of
>>>> > some little film project or other. In any event, the young P is said
>>>> > to have had an interest in making opera or space opera....but what
>>>> > strikes me here again as I re-read this opening passage is how keen P
>>>> > seems to be to make a movie. The camera position here that is the
>>>> > dream of Pirate is from below to above.
>>>> >
>>>> > The one in Chapter 2 of AGTD is from Above to what is Below and there,
>>>> > it is not humans but cattle that are rushed through the Cartesian grid
>>>> > to the killing floor.
>>>> >
>>>> > There are parallels.
>>>> >
>>>> > The WWII camera, some fixed to airplanes, others handheld down into
>>>> > tunnels, some in balloons.
>>>> >
>>>> > The little commentary in both passages suggest the use of film,
>>>> > photography. The colors, the hues, the light or the dark room. all
>>>> > kinda hint at P the fil maker.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >> Nicely argued.
>>>> >>> On Mar 16, 2016, at 9:39 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Doesn't this opening remind anyone of the opening to Chapter Two of
>>>> >>> _Against The Day_?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The imagery in _AGTD_ may be a poaching parody, of Upton Sinclair and
>>>> >>> others of the period, as McHale argues, and following that analysis
>>>> >>> we
>>>> >>> should look for film parody and poach here, but here in this opening
>>>> >>> of GR,  I am inclined to read this opening a not a parody or a poach,
>>>> >>> but as the imagination of a writer who has been influenced, as
>>>> >>> critical studies argue, by everyone and everything, but who has hit
>>>> >>> his stride and is writing in a style that is rightfully and
>>>> >>> especially
>>>> >>> his own. The anxiety of influence, so glaring in all previous works
>>>> >>> is
>>>> >>> ground to dust. Though Mumford and Dickens and Orwell echo here, in
>>>> >>> the imagery, Pynchon has a style all his own and what a style it is.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Ray Easton
>>>> >>> <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>> I loathe statements about literature of the form "it feels to me
>>>> >>>> like..."  (
>>>> >>>> pace, Mark -- not aiming at you, but only at myself! ), but I do
>>>> >>>> have to say
>>>> >>>> that some of what follows after the dream "feels to me like" the
>>>> >>>> beginning
>>>> >>>> of Ulysses.  Felt so my first reading and has every time since.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I cannot figure out why, though -- and the why is what matters.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Sent with AquaMail for Android
>>>> >>>> http://www.aqua-mail.com
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On March 16, 2016 6:37:02 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Distinct feeling of Mulligan at Ulysses opening now that you
>>>> >>>>> mention it.
>>>> >>>>> Wholly changed but in comic tone and meaning
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:02 AM, Ian Livingston
>>>> >>>>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> And the first rebirth is a Pirate, followed by Bloat.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> “There are proceedings of such a delicate nature that it is well
>>>> >>>>>> to
>>>> >>>>>> overwhelm them with coarseness and make them unrecognisable; there
>>>> >>>>>> are
>>>> >>>>>> actions of love and of extravagant magnanimity after which nothing
>>>> >>>>>> can be
>>>> >>>>>> wiser than to take a stick and thrash the witness soundly…“
>>>> >>>>>> Nietzsche, BG&E,
>>>> >>>>>> 29.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> And what is Pirate‘s relation to Buck Mulligan and Stephen
>>>> >>>>>> Dedalus,
>>>> >>>>>> anyway?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> -
>>>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -
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>>>> > -
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>>>> -
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>>>
>>>
>>
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