Pynchon's sentence structure

[Mark Kohut]

*Nein.* ‏@NeinQuarterly  <https://twitter.com/NeinQuarterly> now
<https://twitter.com/NeinQuarterly/status/711654152590462977>

Tweeting grammatical errors. In German. That's what Twitter's for.

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> St. Augustine warns against 'heretical punctuation'. Bet that man was
> partial to an Oxford comma.
>
> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If God is dead, so is Grammar----Somebody, (maybe Nietzsche)?
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 9:29 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is no classically  correct sentence in American English or even
>>> in American Grammar. Traditional grammar, taught by nuns like Sister
>>> Bernadette with her Barking Dog
>>>
>>>
>>> see here:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Bernadette%27s_Barking_Dog
>>>
>>> or, by grammar enthusiasts in public schools, like those young Pynchon
>>> attended, where texts like Warriner's English Grammar and Composition
>>>
>>> see here:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriner%27s_English_Grammar_and_Composition
>>>
>>> were supplemented with handbooks on style, like, The Elements of Style
>>>
>>>  see here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Style
>>>
>>> was abandoned by the National Council for the Teaching of English and,
>>> though it is making something of comeback, was replaced by several
>>> methods of instruction based in theoretical linguistics.
>>>
>>> When I say that P sentences are more rhetorical than strictly
>>> grammatical, I'm not saying that he is writing nonsense, though of
>>> course he is free to do so, but that the grammar is less important
>>> than rhetorical impact.
>>>
>>> To apply a classical grammar or prescriptive grammar to a long P
>>> sentence can be a productive exercise. It may turn up an error that
>>> the editor missed. It may also be useful to translators. It may also
>>> identify ambiguities. We may discuss the meanings and purposes of the
>>> use of ambiguity and even argue its intentionality or if authorial
>>> intent matters.
>>>
>>> There are grammar rules or guidelines for the use of punctuation when
>>> introducing series.  There are obvious errors, for example, a missing
>>> comma that makes the sentence illogical, but there is latitude that in
>>> the interest of rhetorical impact or style far outweighs the value of
>>> strict grammatical clarity.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 10:58 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I agree with all but can also parse it as an almost classically
>>> > correct sentence if the "after a while" clause is seen as the second
>>> > part of a list:
>>> >
>>> > ...and before she knew it
>>> > (1) there they were in another motel room,
>>> > (2) after a while her visits to Sasha dropped off and
>>> > (3) when she made them she came in reeking with Vond sweat...
>>> >
>>> > I haven't changed any grammar or punctuation there, just emphasised
>>> > the listiness.
>>> >
>>> > Is this incorrect? As Ish says it's fiction and Pynchon is free to
>>> > write damn near incomprehensible goobledygook if he cares to, but I
>>> > think the argument that this isn't a classically correct sentence is
>>> > false.
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>  I think there just needs to be a semicolon after motel room for the
>>> whole to work as a single classically correct sentence.
>>> >>> On Mar 19, 2016, at 9:31 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I would say those are two long sentences, or one with an "and"
>>> missing between "motel room" and "after". No real problem for a grammar
>>> freak and no pretending that I can see. (Although I'd have to say that
>>> Kermode could have seen that.)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 2016-03-19 11:15 GMT+01:00 John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>:
>>> >>> I've been reading a recent essay by one of Australia's pre-eminent
>>> >>> novelists, Gerald Murnane, an extremely private man (the more common
>>> >>> description is 'reclusive') only two years younger than Thomas
>>> Pynchon
>>> >>> and whose work is characterised by obscenely long sentences that are
>>> >>> nonetheless grammatically correct. His great obsession is Proust and
>>> >>> most would say he is the Antipodean answer to Proust. The essay is on
>>> >>> the long sentence's profound potential to produce meaning - which he
>>> >>> associates with 'connections' - that short, descriptive, declarative
>>> >>> sentences can't access. But as an obsessive grammarian, he begins the
>>> >>> work decrying Kermode's review of Vineland, in which is quoted the
>>> >>> following loooong sentence. Murnane says it isn't a sentence, but a
>>> 66
>>> >>> word sentence followed by a bunch of unconnected clauses. He goes on
>>> >>> to call Pynchon and Kermode 'pretenders' as a result (did I mention
>>> >>> Murnane is a serious grammar freak?) but eventually produces quite an
>>> >>> interesting essay.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> My question is: I can see how he can't parse the following as a
>>> >>> classically correct sentence past "another motel room" but I can also
>>> >>> see how it does work. I don't know how to argue for it, however. A
>>> >>> puzzle fit for a P-list.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The 'after a while her visits to Sasha' clause is where things get
>>> hairy.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "By the time she began to see that she might, nonetheless, have gone
>>> >>> through with it, Brock Vond had reentered the picture, at the head of
>>> >>> a small motorcade of unmarked Buicks, forcing her over near Pico and
>>> >>> Fairfax, ordering her up against her car, kicking apart her legs and
>>> >>> frisking her himself, and before she knew it there they were in
>>> >>> another motel room, after a while her visits to Sasha dropped off and
>>> >>> when she made them she came in reeking with Vond sweat, Vond semen —
>>> >>> couldn't Sasha smell what was going on? — and his erect penis had
>>> >>> become the joystick with which, hurtling into the future, she would
>>> >>> keep trying to steer among the hazards and obstacles, the swooping
>>> >>> monsters and alien projectiles of each game she would come, year by
>>> >>> year, to stand before, once again out long after curfew, calls home
>>> >>> forgotten, supply of coins dwindling, leaning over the bright display
>>> >>> among the back aisles of a forbidden arcade, rows of other players
>>> >>> silent, unnoticed, closing time never announced, playing for nothing
>>> >>> but the score itself, the row of numbers, a chance of entering her
>>> >>> initials among those of other strangers for a brief time, no longer
>>> >>> the time the world observed but game time, underground time, time
>>> that
>>> >>> could take her nowhere outside its own tight and falsely deathless
>>> >>> perimeter."
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> -
>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> > -
>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
>>
>
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