"Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive" (Molly Hite)

[Monte Davis]

> an undermining of our inherited ways of looking at WW2 and thus of many
other issues

Very much so, in my case. My WWII Marine parents were too temperamentally
skeptical and contrarian to be "gung ho" about either WWII or the Cold War,
but I still grew up more or less within the mainstream, triumphal
consensus: "Our Great Democracy saved the world in the Good War." The
civil-rights movement, Dr. Strangelove, Viet Nam, Nixon -- and yeah,
sex&drugs&rock&roll -- took off the shine and opened some cracks, as did
steady reading of modern history. But GR came in like a barrage from a
dozen unexpected angles, screaming, unstoppable, hilarious, and opened the
cracks into chasms that no amount of "It's morning in America!" <tm Ronald
Reagan and Hal Riney> would ever close. .

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> My observations are not meant to be definitive, and I believe there  is
> along with some dark undertones, a  refreshing subversive quality to the
> humor of these soldiers, spies etc. What I see again and again is an
> undermining of our inherited ways of looking at WW2 and thus of many other
> issues. Our desire to be heroes is being questioned here. Human fantasies
> and dreams have tremendous reality to humans, affecting us on practical and
> psychological levels. Pynchon treats this dreamier material with what seems
> to me equal weight to other parts of history/experience. After all, a book
> is a dream.
> Whether Slothrop’s map is about sexual fantasies or real events doesn’t
> matter in the context of the story. They have a mysteriously predictive
> quality as do so many dreams and actual affairs. It seems to me that P
> wants to leave that prophetic intrusion into human affairs intact even when
> it may have scientific or psychological explanations.  Even if all meaning
> is paranoid delusion, which is not so far from certain Bhuddist thinking,
> and we have a sense of another way of being, we will be asked to
> approximate what remains in our experience. The language that follows, to
> the degree that language is the means of communication, tends to the
> allusive, the poetic. The Tao that can be put into words is not the Tao.
>
> > On Mar 31, 2016, at 8:11 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > So,  sorry Joseph for too shallow a post.
> >
> > And, John, thinking about your observations combined with my current
> preoccupation with
> > the poetic 'compression' of allusions, themes and meanings in GR----I
> mean, GR is as densely
> > poetic as The Wasteland and, what? fifty times longer?---the levels of
> 'reality' vs 'not' and levels
> > of fantasy vs 'the real' can now be compared to P opening out all such
> levels in
> > AtD, the narrative about Chums within stories interacting with a 'real'
> world and later merging
> > --in the tales-- with other imagined beings who then become 'real'
> within the history of the book.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I would agree in general since P makes fun---satirizes to use a 'high'
> term
> > for low fun--but right HERE it seems to me he has made a point of the
> contrast
> >
> > so that we can see another level of real life fantasies vs dreams and
> fantasies.
> >
> > But I see your point and glad it is made.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:36 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't know that there is an opposing of "dreams and fantasies"
> > versus reality within the diegesis of GR. The language of the banana
> > sequence, the mad macro and micro of molecules and bombs and this dude
> > who apparently can be yoked with the fantasies of others... I think
> > the reader is supposed to be knotted into this however they're able to
> > be. I'd argue the sequence isn't about whaling sanctions or double
> > entry accounting but JT's reading isn't too on the nose.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Joseph T writes:
> > > Fun? This is fun of very boyish fantasy materials. Wars start with
> these
> > > fantasies of conquest, potency, control through killing.
> > >
> > > There is a nice range of ambiguity in possible 'readings' of this
> scene as
> > > we have been exploring but there are 'readings' which are projective
> and
> > > absolutely against the ranges within the text.
> > >
> > > Your second sentence is one of them.....esp the line "control thru
> killing'
> > > which comes from WHERE here?   P explores
> > > the fantasies that feed and create wars but Pirate and crew HERE are
> NOT
> > > enacting any fantasy---P purposely contrasts Pirate
> > > waking up and creating this breakfast for all with the dream and
> fantasies.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The gas released from Bananas is  known to make other fruits ripen.
> The
> > >> chemistry of gases is a major force in German technology of the time,
> > >> chemicals liquid and gaseous, released from coal, fossil fuels long
> in the
> > >> ripening.  The ( C)Osmos nose is big and smells something big,
> something
> > >> ripening. The bananas are growing up from the black soil of recycled
> dead
> > >> organic matter.
> > >>
> > >> Fun? This is fun of very boyish fantasy materials. Wars start with
> these
> > >> fantasies of conquest, potency, control through killing. War releases
> a
> > >> powerful ripening, some to spoilage and rot, some to death and
> recycling,
> > >> some to seek a freedom that can’t be taken away in a moment. People
> make
> > >> jokes to cope with situations they can’t control, madness they want to
> > >> challenge. Pirate sings goofball guy humor as do the Yanks on the
> street.
> > >> Lookout primates, other primates and other bananas are falling from
> above.
> > >> We send them up and by God they come right down.
> > >>
> > >> It is interesting in some weird way that I would call both Cruz and
> Trump
> > >> adenoidal The sound of their voice like an echo chamber of egotism .
> Is
> > >> Adenoia anything like Paranoia?
> > >>
> > >> Can’t keep up with the list as i’d like to right now, too many
> demands on
> > >> my time. But enjoying a quick read-through tonight.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 1:27 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > I don't see much fun in the description of the Banana breakfast -
> the
> > >> > tone is more of a surreal, desperate attempt to forget what's
> happening
> > >> > outside. It's not Pynchon who's saying fuck off, but "the high
> intricacy of
> > >> > the weaving of its [the musaceous odor] molecules.
> > >> >
> > >> > Earlier, on the roof: "Pirate has become famous for his Banana
> > >> > Breakfasts … the politics of bacteria, the soils stringing of rings
> and
> > >> > chains in nets only God can tell the meshes of, having seen the
> fruit thrive
> > >> > to lengths of a foot and a half, yes, amazing but true." These are
> unnatural
> > >> > bananas, grown in the shadow of the power station and the gasworks.
> > >> >
> > >> > Why the references to molecules here? They're the first of many
> > >> > references to organic (i.e. unnatural) chemistry. Similarly, I
> don't think
> > >> > the Adenoid appears as a random, comic incident. Pynchon isn't
> going to
> > >> > write about the holocaust directly, but it hovers in the
> background. At
> > >> > least that's how I read it.
> > >> >
> > >> > LK
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: Monte Davis
> > >> > Sent: Mar 28, 2016 11:11 AM
> > >> > To: Mark Kohut
> > >> > Cc: Kai Frederik Lorentzen , pynchon -l , kelber
> > >> > Subject: Re: "Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive" (Molly
> Hite)
> > >> >
> > >> > "...a wonderful breakfast... the scent alone is enough to ward of[f]
> > >> > death, Pynchon famously says “Fuck Death.” So by indulging in this
> pleasure,
> > >> > they are able to escape death, they are able to escape the
> trajectory of
> > >> > human nature even if just for a morning.. maybe by not denying these
> > >> > pleasures we might be able to get out of the arc of human nature..."
> > >> >
> > >> > This is more or less how I read the banana breakfast, too: Bakhtin's
> > >> > carnival, Brueghel's land of Cockaigne, a celebration of excess
> mocking
> > >> > wartime austerity. Yes, it's anomalous in the novel's larger world:
> an
> > >> > island or oasis or refuge, just as the rooftop bananery is an
> artificial
> > >> > enclosure against December chill, just as its bananas are luxuries
> available
> > >> > only to these officers with connections. Still, "a spell, against
> falling
> > >> > objects" seems to me as good as it gets in that world.
> > >> >
> > >> > Which is why I respectfully disagree with part of Laura's discussion
> > >> > last week:
> > >> >
> > >> > LK> The musaceous odor. Anyone who's ever taken organic chemistry
> (did
> > >> > Pynchon? Anyone know?) has probably synthesized banana ester in the
> lab.
> > >> > it's a standard lab exercise, and it's easy to know if you've got
> it right,
> > >> > by that musaceous odor ... So even when Pynchon is talking about
> Nature (in
> > >> > this case, unnaturally growing bananas), he's reminding us how easy
> it is
> > >> > for science to mimic it, or to tear apart and exploit the delicate
> > >> > molecules.
> > >> >
> > >> > There are certainly many places in GR where industrial organic (and
> > >> > inorganic) chemical technology has an unmistakably evil, negative,
> > >> > anti-human or even "anti-life" context and emotional affect. BUT
> NOT, I
> > >> > mildly demur, HERE!
> > >> >
> > >> > Pynchon gives us "peculiar alkaloids" in the bananery's
> long-composted
> > >> > soil... "the politics of bacteria, the soil’s stringing of rings
> and chains
> > >> > in nets only God can tell the meshes of"... "musaceous odor..."
> > >> > "taking over not so much through any brute pungency or volume as by
> the
> > >> > high intricacy to the weaving of its molecules"... "genetic
> chains...
> > >> > labyrinthine enough to preserve some human face down ten or twenty
> > >> > generations"
> > >> >
> > >> > But does he, HERE, say or imply anything about artificial synthesis
> (as
> > >> > contrasted with life's proliferating variety)? Does he say anything
> about a
> > >> > "mimicked" smell as distinct from the real smell of real yummy
> 'nanas? Are
> > >> > there any "delicate" molecules being "torn apart" and "exploited"
> here --
> > >> > other than as life has routinely, "by its nature" done so 24/7 for
> a few
> > >> > billion years before IG Farben came along? No.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm fine with Laura writing about her associations, which I believe
> were
> > >> > brought on by Pynchon's uses (above) of chemical and biological
> vocabulary
> > >> > and concepts. In fact, I share them: I've made isoamyl acetate and
> isopentyl
> > >> > acetate, too. But that's quite different from "Pynchon is reminding
> us" of
> > >> > "science" doing any such thing. In fact, I read those phrases above
> as
> > >> > integral to the unmistakably positive, celebratory "flavor" of the
> banana
> > >> > breakfast -- not as a coded warning that exploitive synthetic
> technology is
> > >> > lurking beneath. The weaving and unweaving of molecules *is*,
> explicitly, "a
> > >> > charm, against falling objects."
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's a reader I respect and admire, and a stock response that runs
> > >> > through fifty years of Pynchonology: "Everyone knows that Pynchon
> mistrusts
> > >> > and fears and warns us about science and technology, so wherever
> their
> > >> > vocabulary and concepts crop up, he's on the attack."
> > >> >
> > >> > This matters to me, as I wrote at length in the exchanges here in
> June
> > >> > of 2013:
> https://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=1306&msg=174066 ,
> > >> > etc etc etc...
> > >> >
> > >> > It leads, again and again, to systematic ignoring and misreading of
> > >> > positive, mixed and ambivalent  contexts and associations for P's
> uses of
> > >> > scientific and technical vocabulary, concepts, and perspectives.
> Fair
> > >> > warning: I'll be coming back to this throughout the BtZ42, and
> throughout GR
> > >> > if we continue.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > "having evidently the time, in his travels among places of death, to
> > >> > devote to girl-chasing"---p.19 Miller edition
> > >> >
> > >> > I believe Ms. Hite is the one who also said, when encountering the
> claim
> > >> > that the Whole Sick Crew were 'hysterical' caricatures
> > >> > said: "I knew these people' IRL.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 4:13 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> > >> > <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Molly Hite’s critical work with Pynchon published in 2004 has the
> > >> > > title “Fun Actually Was Becoming Quite Subversive.” It is an
> interesting
> > >> > > title, because it originated somewhere completely different than
> Gravity’s
> > >> > > Rainbow, in fact it came from the 1969 trial of the Chicago
> Seven, a group
> > >> > > of young men from antiwar and revolutionary groups accused of
> disrupting the
> > >> > > 1968 Democratic Convention. This was considered a very important
> trial in
> > >> > > the counterculture movement, something Pynchon famously embraced
> in his
> > >> > > works. The exact quote originated from the testimony of Abbie
> Hoffman and
> > >> > > reads “fun was very important… it was a direct rebuttal of the
> kind of
> > >> > > ethics and morals that were being put forth in the country to
> keep people
> > >> > > working in a rate race.” Hite uses this to introduce her
> interpretation of
> > >> > > Pynchon. She argues that “the idea of fun could subvert an
> oppressive
> > >> > > capitalist structure is central to this novel of excess.”
> > >> >             Molly Hite uses Herbert Marcuse’s 1955 culture synthesis
> > >> > Eros and Civilization: A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud to help
> frame her
> > >> > argument, and plainly states that this work must have influenced
> Pynchon.
> > >> > Marcuse claims that the period of time, which this book was written
> in, was
> > >> > a period of great productivity and excess, and with the
> technological
> > >> > advances, it became economically feasible to have a “leisure
> culture.”
> > >> > However with this culture of leisure comes a raising of standards
> and
> > >> > consequently a “surplus-repression.” This is repression is the
> repression of
> > >> > Freudian pleasures, conceding or flat out rejecting the
> gratification of
> > >> > many desires which Freud saw as necessary for a society to organize
> and
> > >> > survive. Marcuse argues that by denying these pleasures principles
> that
> > >> > “advanced civilizations are in danger from a second group of
> instinctive
> > >> > impulses striving for death.” This, Hite states, is where we get the
> > >> > dramatization of the destruction from the rocket, as it becomes
> global. She
> > >> > argues “The V-2 Rocket rises under human guidance..” and this is
> where we
> > >> > understand the “death drive.” This is the natural tendency of
> society, to
> > >> > progress to a certain point, and then fall into the death drive;
> the arc of
> > >> > human civilization not unlike the arc of the bomb.
> > >> >
> > >> >             Hite states that Pynchon understood Marcuse’s
> possibility of
> > >> > escape from postindustrial destruction, and encoded it in his book,
> however
> > >> > slight this chance might be. By not becoming individuals we are
> doomed to,
> > >> > as individuality in Gravity’s Rainbowis synonymous with disrupting
> the
> > >> > productivity and subsequent regression of human nature. This is
> where the
> > >> > overt sexual tones of the book come from, especially the more
> risqué ones.
> > >> > These sexual acts are done not in hopes of productivity, or
> reproducing, but
> > >> > simply out of pleasure. By not denying these pleasures and becoming
> > >> > individual of the society, we can escape the trajectory of
> destruction. Hite
> > >> > does acknowledge that these chances are incredibly small, that
> betrayal and
> > >> > self-defeating tendencies are built into the system, that “every
> revolution
> > >> > has been a betrayed revolution.” So for Hite’s interpretation,
> humanity is
> > >> > at stake, the trajectory is annihilation, and Pynchon offers a way
> to escape
> > >> > that trajectory.
> > >> >
> > >> >             I would like to agree with Hite in her thinking. In the
> very
> > >> > beginning of the novel, we are introduced with a very dark image of
> the
> > >> > concentration camp, with people being ushered into a bleak hotel.
> At that
> > >> > hotel, they wait quietly for the bomb to drop without any hope
> left. Right
> > >> > after we get that dark image, we are given one of the most colorful
> scenes
> > >> > in the novel, the banana breakfast. After a night of indulging in
> alcohol to
> > >> > excess, Pirate wakes up and picks bananas, something that was
> rationed
> > >> > during the time period. He then begins to cook a wonderful breakfast
> > >> > consisting of banana everything, and the scent alone is enough to
> ward of
> > >> > death, Pynchon famously says “Fuck Death.” So by indulging in this
> pleasure,
> > >> > they are able to escape death, they are able to escape the
> trajectory of
> > >> > human nature even just for a morning. I believe scenes like this
> are a clear
> > >> > road map that Pynchon gives us, that maybe by not denying these
> pleasures we
> > >> > might be able to get out of the arc of human nature, or in
> Pynchon’s work,
> > >> > the literal bomb. The chances are slim however, these people are
> protected
> > >> > only as long as the scent of the banana breakfast wafts over them,
> but the
> > >> > chance does exist.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Hite, Molly, “‘Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive’: Herbert
> > >> > Marcuse, the Yippies, and the Value System of Gravity’s Rainbow,”
> > >> > Contemporary Literature 51.4 (Winter 2010): 677-702. <
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> https://englit0500.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/fun-actually-was-actually-becoming-subversive/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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