A Provocative Question

Wed Nov 23 17:12:30 CST 2016

Hear, hear,  Laura!    I voted for Hillary since 2008,  but I don’t know if I did then or not.  I’m not in any kind of a swing state - although my county is home to - gads - Kevin McCarthy. 

Yes,  my heart was with Bernie, but my head told me he couldn’t win - and I’d rather have Hillary against Trump than what I saw as a starting-gate loss.  I knew more people who would rather just not vote than have to choose between Trump the bumpkin and Bernie the commie.  They said Hillary would be okay but the Comey machine worked and they ended up voting 3rd party.   In hindsight … I may have been wrong.  I tend to toward the pragmatic rather than gut feeling/belief/conscience.  

Becky 

> On Nov 23, 2016, at 11:48 AM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> I voted for Sanders and Stein. If I lived in a swing state or if the electoral college hadn't rendered my vote irrelevant, I would have held my nose and voted for Clinton. And it would have been the most traumatic vote I'd ever cast, for all the reasons Thomas has stated.
> 
> OK, stop screaming at me!
> 
> I was a Hillary supporter back in the 2008 Democratic primary, because the sexism (specifically from progressive men) was so loathsome, I felt I had no choice. As a Hillary supporter back then, I was accused, mostly by "progressive" men, family and friends and even p-listers, of being racist and reactionary. These very same people are now, of course, avid Hillary acolytes. They're the very same people who accused me of being racist for NOT supporting Hillary this time around. What changed for me between 2008 and the present: Hillary's emergence as a champion of the Neoliberal, regime-changing war hawks. Her cosying up with bankers didn't help.Not did her unabashed support of the globalist agenda (her pretending that she was opposed to TPP during the campaign was laughable). 
> 
> I was bracing myself to wake up post-election to the harsh realty of a rapidly warming neo-Cold War, and business as usual. That we now have a climate-denying, right-wing President Caligula, with Pence as his protective cod-piece, is something I place firmly on the shoulders of the Democrat establishment. They were willing to risk a Trump presidency rather than face the true horror (for them and their real constituents) of a progressive anti-globalist Sanders presidency. They thought they could hold a Republican-style "rah-rah" America convention, and court Republican votes, rather than speak to their their own base. Hillary may have won the popular vote, but the turn-out was low across the board. They also made the same mistake they made during the Reagan elections: Union leadership endorsements do not mean union votes. The Unions are just as out of touch with their base.
> 
> The Democrats now have to make a hard decision: become a truly anti-corporate party, or openly embrace their Republicanism. It's highly unlikely that they'll choose the former path. They're anxiously waiting to see if Trump will uphold the most important planks of the globalist agenda. If he doesn't, they'll work together with the Republicans to remove him, in favor of Pence who will push the globalist line where it matters. I suspect he'll fall into line, and the Dems can continue to play the Good Cop. Oh, the Clinton Foundation and their globalist cronies will spearhead the fight against the ensuing civil rights abuses. And they'll be sincere, too, because, WalMart aside, abortion rights, gay marriage and open immigration are all actually good for business. Multi-cultural models are great for huckstering jeans, iphones and pharms.
> 
> On a different note, I saw the play Sweat, yesterday. Written between 2012 and 2015, but taking place in Reading, PA during the Dubya presidency, it's a foreshadowing of the Trump win. It's a laundry list of issues that Sanders addressed and Clinton didn't: plant closings, home foreclosures, the cynical use of immigrants to erode union jobs, unaffordable college tuition. The play ends in 2008, in a hopeful note: things will change. But they didn't change, for white or black people. 
> 
> Here's a great interview with playwright Lynn Nottage, before and after election day: 
> 
> http://fortune.com/2016/11/11/trump-voters-lynn-nottage/
> 
> Laura
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Thomas Eckhardt 
> >Sent: Nov 23, 2016 7:17 AM
> >To: David Morris , P-list 
> >Subject: Re: A Provocative Question
> >
> >Polemics aside, here are a few thoughts on the election:
> >
> >Both candidates were unelectable (which in itself says a
> >lot about the ruinous state of the US body politic). We 
> >don't have to talk about the shortcomings of Trump. 
> >Clinton, however, in my opinion
> >was the even more despicable candidate. Not because she is
> >obviously corrupt -- unless you actually believe she
> >receives 485,000 Dollars for a speech in front of Deutsche
> >Bank managers merely because of her oratory skills -- but
> >because she is a certified warmonger and regime-change
> >advocate.
> >
> >Let us leave aside Iraq, Libya, Honduras and Ukraine: 
> >Clinton wanted to establish a no-fly zone in
> >Syria. This would not only be against international law
> >but also amount to a declaration
> >of war against Russia. Trump, on the other hand, is
> >against the establishment of a NFZ.
> >
> >I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want war
> >with Russia.
> >
> >Interestingly, Trump has recently met Tulsi Gabbard who,
> >as far as I can tell, represents the sane side of US
> >politics. Her statement on the meeting is well worth 
> >reading and expresses my POV better than I ever could:
> >
> >http://gabbard.house.gov/index.php/press-releases/655-gabbard-statement-on-meeting-with-president-elect-donald-trump
> >
> >If Trump continues in this vein, he might run into
> >trouble with the National Security Establishment...
> >
> >Me, I would have voted for Sanders or Stein, never for 
> >Clinton or Trump.
> >
> >I will leave it at that. Let us hope for the best.
> >
> >-
> >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l

Becky
https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com

-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l