A Provocative Question

Fri Nov 25 16:48:11 CST 2016

Amen.  No Backing Down!  And No Appologies!  Fuck everyone who voted for
Trump, including those who didn't vote for Hillary because of their tender
sensitivities to her pea beneath their Princess mattress.  Fuck them all!

David Morris

On Friday, November 25, 2016, Ray Easton <raymond.lee.easton at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am a hillbilly.  Vance's views of what he thinks of as "his" culture
> are deeply offensive to me.  My Daddy -- who would not have recognized a
> Marxist idea if it walked up and slapped him in the face -- would
> nonetheless (in other Appalachian words) have described Vance as a class
> traitor.
>
> If Democrats turn to the ideas of men like this to try to find the way
> forward, they are doomed.
>
> Ray
>
> ------ Original message------
> *From: *Matthew Taylor
> *Date: *Fri, Nov 25, 2016 16:08
> *To: *Mark Kohut;Becky Lindroos;Thomas Eckhardt;David
> Morris;kelber;pynchon -l;
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*Re: A Provocative Question
>
> I haven't read Hillbilly Elegy, though I'll admit that this review
> <https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/10/hillbilly-elegy-review-jd-vance-national-review-white-working-class-appalachia/>
> turned me off from the very idea of it.
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.kohut at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> I believe Hillbilly Elegy was all finished before Trump even started
>> running...certainly conceived and mostly written before...I can imagine his
>> publishers MAKING SURE Trump was not mentioned because......no way he'd get
>> nom much less win.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Nov 25, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net');>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I’ve read Hillbilly Elegy - it’s a great memoir but it has other things
>> to say.   The author,  J.D. Vance, a self-proclaimed ex-hillbilly who
>> understands he was very, very lucky,  calls on the now chronically
>> unemployed in the Kentucky coal mines and Cincinnati areas to pull
>> themselves up by their bootstraps and stop being lazy.  He also calls for
>> more effective assistance in re-training.  He says other things too - It’s
>> mainly because of this book that I have only lately come to really support
>> Bernie - (Bernie goes much, much further in the area of re-training and
>> tuition free college.)  Vance is Republican but didn’t vote for Trump  (I
>> had to look that up - it’s not in the book.  The book was NOT written to
>> “explain” Trump but it goes a long ways toward doing that.  He’s not
>> mentioned that I remember.)
>> >
>> > I’ve currently almost finished reading  White Trash - about 50 pages to
>> go.   It’s a history of the lowliest whites in our society and how they
>> came about from the days of pre-colonial Massachusetts and Virginia through
>> the swamp people of North Caroli na,  the Civil War,  Westward Expansion,
>> the Wars and Depression,  through Elvis and LBJ and so on.   Trump is
>> mentioned in passing at the tail end. (I did a search.)   This book is
>> dense - jam-packed with all sorts of tidbits I’d like more information
>> about.  But there’s an extensive Notes section so … ??? -  it’s kind of
>> overwhelming but Isenberg writes nicely.  Definitely a history book.
>> >
>> > I’ve got Strangers in their Own Land  on my radar but I might have to
>> give the subject a break for a few weeks -
>> >
>> > Becky
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Nov 25, 2016, at 5:16 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mark.kohut at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> i was reminded yesterday by David Kipen that Pynchon wrote of the
>> inability of the student (New) Left to connect with the working class in
>> the intro to SLOW LEARNER.
>> >> And this reminds me that it is st ill identity politics to think and
>> say 'white working class' as I and most are doing. Always respect Pynchon'
>> s precision, I repeat to myself.
>> >>
>> >> New relevant books: Strangers in their Own Land ( excerpts around),
>> White Trash and Hillbilly Elegy.
>> >>
>> >> I learned from a polling strategist that since race is ascertainable
>> from voting records, they report and the mainstream media simply uses
>> "whites" and "blacks" ( along with Hispanics and Others (say) in their
>> reductionist way, fostering the bad shit.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>>> On Nov 24, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Thomas Eckhardt <
>> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de');>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 23.11.2016 um 20:48 schrieb kelber at mindspring.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kelber at mindspring.com');>:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://fortune.com/2016/11/11/trump-voters-lynn-nottage/
>> <http://fortune.com/2016/1%201/11/trump-voters-lynn-nottage/>
>> >>>
>> >>> Very interesting, thank you.
>> >>>
>> >>> I would like to learn more. Are there any other contemporary writers
>> addressing the situation of the working class in the US today? The impact
>> of the war on terror, the impact of globalisation?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -
>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >> -
>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >
>> > Becky
>> > https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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