A Provocative Question
Becky Lindroos
bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net
Tue Nov 29 08:50:32 CST 2016
One scary opinion is that there are 3 paths according to some Bloomberg report I read yesterday and can’t find now. As I remember it said:
1. The Trumpsters get what they want and all is well.
2. The Trumpsters do not get what they want and mellow out and accept that life has changed.
3. The Trumpsters do not get what they want and elect someone more aggressive.
Becky
> On Nov 29, 2016, at 4:13 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As you know the headline unemployment rate is only one of several
> measures of unemployment reported in the BLS report. There are 5
> other measures in the U1-U6, but, as you intimate these measures are
> not adequate nor sufficient measures, nor are all of these taken
> together an excellent measures of the employment and unemployment
> reality. Chair Yellen, in her now famous or infamous, depending on how
> one views her, dashboard has measures that includes numbers on "quit
> rates" and "jolts" and other measures not often published, certainly
> not in the headlines. In any event, the numbers, now, sure look good
> at first blush. Obama takes credit, after all, the Unemployment rate
> was cut in half and the great contraction has slowly expanded into a
> new normal around 2%
> So what's wrong with that? Now that wages and asset prices are moving
> up, now that the Fed is at target for its so-called duel mandate, now
> that Trump is talking about a mixture of supply side and demand side
> economics to move GDP back to when America was great (3-4%), all seems
> right in the US, especially when contrasted with much of the rest of
> the developed economies in the world, but there is still malaise over
> the US, a sickness that maybe a crisis in democracy, in liberal
> democracy. And this lifting populists and frightening the hell out of
> everyone but those crazy Trumpsters who, after all is said and done,
> though they be white, respond to Trump's pitch to the Black Community:
> what have you to lose?
> As Dylan says, when you ain't got nothing....
>
> There is no dignity in having plenty of nothing and nothing is not
> plenty for nobody nomore.
>
> And the white men sing dooo da doot da doot
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 11:22 AM, Becky Lindroos
> <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> I agree - working class is not lower class. The trick is being in the working class in a time (2016) when the big union plants have moved or closed down.
>>
>> Meanwhile, entry-level jobs in the government or medical fields usually need more education and training than these displaced workers have. Furthermore, their kids (20-something now) were looking to go to work at the plant or mine or mill like dad did. A high school education did that back in 1984 or so. Not now.
>>
>> Does working part time at a fast food place AND a Dollar Tree count as working class? - (I don’t know.) Unemployment figures don’t count folks who are unemployed for a long time or are way under-employed (engineers working as mini-mart clerks).
>>
>>
>> But Bernie was the only candidate talking about getting education to the people so they could get jobs somewhere other than fast food (medical techs, teachers, gov’t workers, insurance clerks). And many in the working class (or labor class or whatever) supported that - Bernie held out a possible future because I don’t think the old manufacturing/ mining jobs are coming back.
>>
>> Becky
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 5:51 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mark turns us back to Pynchon's Slow Learner Introduction where, while
>>> discussing "Small Rain," P talks about why the class issue in the
>>> tale interests him now, circa 1984. Note that P refers to the whites
>>> as working class not lower class. He then goes on to talk about how
>>> the New Left and the white working class failed to work together in
>>> part because of language. A first step for "liberals" who want to
>>> communicate with and understand the white working class poor is to
>>> stop calling them lower class.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Becky Lindroos
>>> <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> I think the book was written for a relatively liberal readership - and I think “we” liberals did ignore the demands (manufacturing jobs, guns, GLBTQ rights, etc.) of the lower white classes for a bit too long and paid for it in the last election. How much sway does a union have anymore when the plants are closed and half the membership is racist? Their anger was a huge impulse behind their votes. (many of them! - not all! - a generalization!)
>>>>
>>>> Just a wild guess -
>>>> Becky
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 2:02 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That premise should ask who the "we" is thus posited that can't any longer ignore the bottom income strata. That "we" doesn't include any Republicans, not even the stupid poor ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, November 26, 2016, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> I finished "White Trash: The Untold Story of Class in America” and it really is a good book. My only problem is that the premise:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Throughout its history, the United States has always had a class system. It is not only directed by the top 1 percent and supported by a contented middle class. We can no longer ignore the stagnant, expendable bottom layers of society in explaining the national identity.”
>>>>>
>>>>> gets a bit lost in the middle. Isenberg is a historian by trade. There’s also a bit too much contemporary stuff for my tastes. I was reading it more as a history book but in Part 3 it takes a long look (too long) at the contemporary scene.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Epilogue ties up all the ends and makes a bow -
>>>>>
>>>>> I’d recommend it if you’re interested in "the history of class in America” and can tolerate a couple chapters on Elvis, Dolly, Billy Beer, Tammy Faye, the Dukes of Hazzard and Sarah Palin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Becky
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2016, at 1:35 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve read Hillbilly Elegy - it’s a great memoir but it has other things to say. The author, J.D. Vance, a self-proclaimed ex-hillbilly who understands he was very, very lucky, calls on the now chronically unemployed in the Kentucky coal mines and Cincinnati areas to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and stop being lazy. He also calls for more effective assistance in re-training. He says other things too - It’s mainly because of this book that I have only lately come to really support Bernie - (Bernie goes much, much further in the area of re-training and tuition free college.) Vance is Republican but didn’t vote for Trump (I had to look that up - it’s not in the book. The book was NOT written to “explain” Trump but it goes a long ways toward doing that. He’s not mentioned that I remember.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve currently almost finished reading White Trash - about 50 pages to go. It’s a history of the lowliest whites in our society and how they came about from the days of pre-colonial Massachusetts and Virginia through the swamp people of North Carolina, the Civil War, Westward Expansion, the Wars and Depression, through Elvis and LBJ and so on. Trump is mentioned in passing at the tail end. (I did a search.) This book is dense - jam-packed with all sorts of tidbits I’d like more information about. But there’s an extensive Notes section so … ??? - it’s kind of overwhelming but Isenberg writes nicely. Definitely a history book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve got Strangers in their Own Land on my radar but I might have to give the subject a break for a few weeks -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Becky
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 25, 2016, at 5:16 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i was reminded yesterday by David Kipen that Pynchon wrote of the inability of the student (New) Left to connect with the working class in the intro to SLOW LEARNER.
>>>>>>> And this reminds me that it is still identity politics to think and say 'white working class' as I and most are doing. Always respect Pynchon' s precision, I repeat to myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New relevant books: Strangers in their Own Land ( excerpts around), White Trash and Hillbilly Elegy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I learned from a polling strategist that since race is ascertainable from voting records, they report and the mainstream media simply uses "whites" and "blacks" ( along with Hispanics and Others (say) in their reductionist way, fostering the bad shit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 24, 2016, at 3:09 PM, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 23.11.2016 um 20:48 schrieb kelber at mindspring.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://fortune.com/2016/11/11/trump-voters-lynn-nottage/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very interesting, thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to learn more. Are there any other contemporary writers addressing the situation of the working class in the US today? The impact of the war on terror, the impact of globalisation?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Becky
>>>>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>
>>>>> Becky
>>>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Becky
>>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>> Becky
>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
Becky
https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
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