NP - Gaddis

[Monte Davis]

I meant "beyond" in extent rather than intensity: that after the first
dozen depictions of banal, bohemian-bien-pensant conversation, there was
nothing new -- just an increasing annoyance and a suspicion that Gaddis was
working out some real-life resentment or spite at this subculture to no
artistic effect.

On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
wrote:

> A lot of truth in what you say.
>
> And, apropos of "It goes way beyond the call of satire" – do you really
> know what you said there? I know that terrain exists – we have a lurid
> example in Germany, a comedian who called an asshole a goat-fucker and when
> the asshole went to court said: Oh, I was being satirical and therefore
> innocent! – but neither Gaddis nor Pynchon did ever set foot in it, as far
> as I'm concerned.
>
> 2017-07-15 14:42 GMT+02:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:
>
>> I will reference The Failures of Criticism by Someone Good (who I won't
>> take time look up) as a terrific book on
>> the whole long history of even the best and the brightest readers/critics
>> missing real genius all the time. And,
>> there are countless other examples and stories in almost any literary
>> history.
>>
>> This book (and phenomenon) can lead one to this possible insight: many of
>> the best reader/critics, full of seminal insight
>> into many of the best of their time, are often so historically embedded
>> with their insights and what supports them, that
>> they, perforce, can be unable to notice originality of genius. [Johnson
>> on Sterne: nothing so different can last (paraphrase, I'm sure).
>>
>> A--and, Pynchon was so appreciated sub rosa, what with his powerful
>> so-smart agent; his story publishing reputation--including as we know, an
>> early V. bit--his writing teacher's reputation and praise, etc. that that
>> wide net cultural reader/presence that was George Plimpton--paris Review
>> and all--who 'liked' most of what he wrote about (if he didn't it seems he
>> did not write about it?) was, yes, lucky for Pynchon but also more and less
>> than luck. It was a Faulkner First Novel winner, we know. Many/most good
>> reviewers of the time probably would have reviewed it favorably, I suggest,
>> largely because it deserved to be.
>>
>> Gaddis, however, as I understand, worked all alone on The Recognitions,
>> as obscure as Pynchon became, I think. Attacking
>> an ambitious stranger with no calling cards is easier for most.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 5:37 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> you can read it here: http://www.nyx.net/~awestrop/ftb/ftb.htm
>>>
>>> (you get the impression you either get the usual assholes or lucky like
>>> Pynchon [getting Plimpton].
>>>
>>> 2017-07-15 11:11 GMT+02:00 Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Have you ever read Jack Green's "Fire the Bastards"? Gaddis was bashed
>>>> from the get-go.
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: ‎7/‎15/‎2017 3:54
>>>> To: L E Bryan <lebryan at sonic.net>
>>>> Cc: jesse gooch <jlguuch at gmail.com>; Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>;
>>>> P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: NP - Gaddis
>>>>
>>>> So no help on the "who's bad-mouthing Gaddis" front? I'm genuinely
>>>> curious.
>>>>
>>>> YOPJ
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM, L E Bryan <lebryan at sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Frolic is worth reading just for the judge’s long decision about the
>>>>> lost dog. My attorney friends loved it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 7:02 PM, jesse gooch <jlguuch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Very nice. Now I need to get around to reading Frolic.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apropos of Gaddis not being trashed, here is an appreciation of A
>>>>> Frolic Of His Own:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.themillions.com/2016/06/william-gaddis-and-americ
>>>>> an-justice.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe someone else already shared this -- if so, apologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Mark Thibodeau <
>>>>> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Who is trashing Gaddis?! Particularly "beyond the idiot Franzen"?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
>>>>>> www.avg.com
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 12:18 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The New Yorker just had a long piece on Texas and it's politics,
>>>>>>> some harbinger of the future of America with its starved and obscene,
>>>>>>> religious wing nuts, ad infinitum.
>>>>>>> Gaddis was and remains for me  a refreshing cudgel upon the heads of
>>>>>>> such rampant stupidity and malice but reading the article leads one to
>>>>>>> think it's gotten even worse.
>>>>>>> It's funny how often Gaddis gets trashed now beyond the idiot
>>>>>>> Franzen. Yet no one has reached the heights WG landed in just 4 novels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:54 PM Charles Albert <cfalbert at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've spent the past couple of years feeling like one of those
>>>>>>>> halfwit monks described in The Swerve. This is the first period of time
>>>>>>>> I've had to read something big on the ever expanding list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given how hard it was to find for so long, I'm certain not everyone
>>>>>>>> has The Recognitions, so I wanted to share the moment when I believe I may
>>>>>>>> have fallen in love....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Your father's father, she corrected him sharply, but her voice
>>>>>>>> broke, almost bitter as she looked away, not for the death of her brother
>>>>>>>> but to insinuate that he had abandoned her in this bondage of mortality.
>>>>>>>> She talked to Wyatt familiarly of death, as though to take him with her
>>>>>>>> would be the kindest expression of her love for him possible: still, she
>>>>>>>> never spoke directly of death, never named it so, but continued to treat it
>>>>>>>> with the euphemistic care reserved elsewhere for obscenity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It sets up like Bierce, and then the punchline is not another
>>>>>>>> artfully engineered clause or sentence - it's ONE word.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It gives me wood......
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> love,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> cfa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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