NP - Gaddis

[Jochen Stremmel]

Found it: https://harpers.org/archive/2014/05/humor-2/



2017-07-15 17:39 GMT+02:00 Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>:

> I see – but are you sure that there really was nothing new, no new aspect
> of the drivel, and that it was not intended, the reader's growing annoyance.
>
> (I'm sure I don't have to tell you about repetition, even seemingly
> endless repetition as a comic tool – I seem to remember a story of Mark
> Twain that exemplifies just that.)
>
> 2017-07-15 16:48 GMT+02:00 Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>:
>
>> I meant "beyond" in extent rather than intensity: that after the first
>> dozen depictions of banal, bohemian-bien-pensant conversation, there was
>> nothing new -- just an increasing annoyance and a suspicion that Gaddis was
>> working out some real-life resentment or spite at this subculture to no
>> artistic effect.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of truth in what you say.
>>>
>>> And, apropos of "It goes way beyond the call of satire" – do you really
>>> know what you said there? I know that terrain exists – we have a lurid
>>> example in Germany, a comedian who called an asshole a goat-fucker and when
>>> the asshole went to court said: Oh, I was being satirical and therefore
>>> innocent! – but neither Gaddis nor Pynchon did ever set foot in it, as far
>>> as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>> 2017-07-15 14:42 GMT+02:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> I will reference The Failures of Criticism by Someone Good (who I won't
>>>> take time look up) as a terrific book on
>>>> the whole long history of even the best and the brightest
>>>> readers/critics missing real genius all the time. And,
>>>> there are countless other examples and stories in almost any literary
>>>> history.
>>>>
>>>> This book (and phenomenon) can lead one to this possible insight: many
>>>> of the best reader/critics, full of seminal insight
>>>> into many of the best of their time, are often so historically embedded
>>>> with their insights and what supports them, that
>>>> they, perforce, can be unable to notice originality of genius. [Johnson
>>>> on Sterne: nothing so different can last (paraphrase, I'm sure).
>>>>
>>>> A--and, Pynchon was so appreciated sub rosa, what with his powerful
>>>> so-smart agent; his story publishing reputation--including as we know, an
>>>> early V. bit--his writing teacher's reputation and praise, etc. that that
>>>> wide net cultural reader/presence that was George Plimpton--paris Review
>>>> and all--who 'liked' most of what he wrote about (if he didn't it seems he
>>>> did not write about it?) was, yes, lucky for Pynchon but also more and less
>>>> than luck. It was a Faulkner First Novel winner, we know. Many/most good
>>>> reviewers of the time probably would have reviewed it favorably, I suggest,
>>>> largely because it deserved to be.
>>>>
>>>> Gaddis, however, as I understand, worked all alone on The Recognitions,
>>>> as obscure as Pynchon became, I think. Attacking
>>>> an ambitious stranger with no calling cards is easier for most.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 5:37 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> you can read it here: http://www.nyx.net/~awestrop/ftb/ftb.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> (you get the impression you either get the usual assholes or lucky
>>>>> like Pynchon [getting Plimpton].
>>>>>
>>>>> 2017-07-15 11:11 GMT+02:00 Erik T. Burns <eburns at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you ever read Jack Green's "Fire the Bastards"? Gaddis was
>>>>>> bashed from the get-go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> From: Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: ‎7/‎15/‎2017 3:54
>>>>>> To: L E Bryan <lebryan at sonic.net>
>>>>>> Cc: jesse gooch <jlguuch at gmail.com>; Robert Mahnke
>>>>>> <rpmahnke at gmail.com>; P-list <pynchon-l at waste.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: NP - Gaddis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So no help on the "who's bad-mouthing Gaddis" front? I'm genuinely
>>>>>> curious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOPJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:32 PM, L E Bryan <lebryan at sonic.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Frolic is worth reading just for the judge’s long decision about the
>>>>>>> lost dog. My attorney friends loved it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 7:02 PM, jesse gooch <jlguuch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very nice. Now I need to get around to reading Frolic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apropos of Gaddis not being trashed, here is an appreciation of A
>>>>>>> Frolic Of His Own:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.themillions.com/2016/06/william-gaddis-and-americ
>>>>>>> an-justice.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe someone else already shared this -- if so, apologies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Mark Thibodeau <
>>>>>>> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Who is trashing Gaddis?! Particularly "beyond the idiot Franzen"?!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
>>>>>>>> www.avg.com
>>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 12:18 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The New Yorker just had a long piece on Texas and it's politics,
>>>>>>>>> some harbinger of the future of America with its starved and obscene,
>>>>>>>>> religious wing nuts, ad infinitum.
>>>>>>>>> Gaddis was and remains for me  a refreshing cudgel upon the heads
>>>>>>>>> of such rampant stupidity and malice but reading the article leads one to
>>>>>>>>> think it's gotten even worse.
>>>>>>>>> It's funny how often Gaddis gets trashed now beyond the idiot
>>>>>>>>> Franzen. Yet no one has reached the heights WG landed in just 4 novels.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 2:54 PM Charles Albert <cfalbert at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've spent the past couple of years feeling like one of those
>>>>>>>>>> halfwit monks described in The Swerve. This is the first period of time
>>>>>>>>>> I've had to read something big on the ever expanding list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given how hard it was to find for so long, I'm certain not
>>>>>>>>>> everyone has The Recognitions, so I wanted to share the moment when I
>>>>>>>>>> believe I may have fallen in love....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Your father's father, she corrected him sharply, but her voice
>>>>>>>>>> broke, almost bitter as she looked away, not for the death of her brother
>>>>>>>>>> but to insinuate that he had abandoned her in this bondage of mortality.
>>>>>>>>>> She talked to Wyatt familiarly of death, as though to take him with her
>>>>>>>>>> would be the kindest expression of her love for him possible: still, she
>>>>>>>>>> never spoke directly of death, never named it so, but continued to treat it
>>>>>>>>>> with the euphemistic care reserved elsewhere for obscenity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It sets up like Bierce, and then the punchline is not another
>>>>>>>>>> artfully engineered clause or sentence - it's ONE word.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It gives me wood......
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> love,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> cfa
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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