This is very much NOT NP. All P.

Atticus Pinecone atticuspinecone at gmail.com
Mon Nov 13 15:27:14 CST 2017


One example:
 
<<It had only to do with the destroyer and the destroyed, and the act which united them, and it had never been that way before. Returning from the Waterberg with von Trotha and his staff, they came upon an old woman digging wild onions at the side of the road. A trooper named Konig jumped down off his horse and shot her dead: but before he pulled the trigger he put the muzzle against her forehead and said, “I am going to kill you.” She looked up and said, “I thank you.” Later, toward dusk, there was one Herero girl, sixteen or seventeen years old, for the platoon; and Firelily's rider was last. After he'd had her he must have hesitated a moment between sidearm and bayonet. She actually smiled then; pointed to both, and began to shift her hips lazily in the dust. He used both.>>
 
And remember the Hottentots during the siege?

You may argue that I have it all wrong, but death & sex are united in many different places in Pynchon's books & I hope we can agree it holds in these spots in V.
 
From the article:
 
<<Pynchon did it right, but he did it right for his time. Today, the best way to call attention to something like the Herero genocide would be by standing alongside Namibian authors — or, even better, giving them a leg up and getting out of the way.>>
 
Could a 24 year old white kid from Cornell publish V. today? Would it be labeled racist? I don’t know, but probably. Why should today’s standard be altered for Tommy? Hawaii had been a state for only 4 years when V. was published—wasn't that colonialism as well?


> On Nov 13, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> OK, Pinecone, I'll bite. Pynchon's treatment of the Herero massacre is very different in V. and GR, and I don't see much value in collapsing the two to make a point. Can you point to where in V. (Mondaugen's Story) any of the characters are erotically enjoying their destruction and subjugation? 
> 
> GR is a novel about, among other things, the psychosexual tensions of people living in the shadow (and foreshadowing) of The Bomb, and yes, racism, colonialism, mud, shit, color, death, and homoeroticism are all tossed into the mix, which is populated by Brigadier Pudding as much as half-Herero, half Russian Enzian. You seem to be proposing that commenting on racism is the same as being racist. 
> 
> Laura
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "the psychopathology or colonization"...
>> 
>> how, psychically, the colonized can inevitably internalize the sickness and sick pleasure of the colonizer...
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:42 PM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't catch your meaning.
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think Ms d'Abbadie knows from thinkers like Fanon, Seghor and her own experience (somehow) of how the answers to this are answered:
>>>> "He presents the Hereros as erotically enjoying their destruction & subjugation—and compares black skin and shit."
>>>> 
>>>> For the above, see the below: 
>>>> "As an intellectual, Fanon was a political radical, Pan-Africanist, and Marxist humanist concerned with the psychopathology of colonization,[2] and the human, social, and cultural consequences of decolonization.[3][4][5] "
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I don't see why Pynchon gets a "pass" on V. & GR. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> He presents the Hereros as erotically enjoying their destruction & subjugation—and compares black skin and shit. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alexandra d'Abbadie is down with that? Or did she miss it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you're subscribing to this style of thought, our good friend Tommy not only doesn't get a pass, he's one of the worst, most disgusting offenders. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://electricliterature.com/thomas-pynchon-shows-us-how-white-writers-can-avoid-appropriation-8902a5563a1c
> 
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