Another Pynchon theme manifesting again in the real world.

Sat Sep 9 06:03:34 CDT 2017

I introduced Cuckoo's Nest after JT connected anarchism with carnival.
And, because KK's second novel, _Sometimes a Great Notion_ is about
work in the logging industry and a strike, and is perhaps the
quintessential PNW novel, on that can be read with VL.

Also, if you remember the CN film, you recall that Big Nurse is
something of a evil bitch. Not exactly KK's idea. And in STAN we have
many of the feminist themes we find in VL.

In any event, the carnival in CN is the direct connection to the
carnival in GR and to P's anarchism themes generally.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
> What a wonderful book! Thanks for bringing it up. I always thought the movie
> (that I saw some years after reading the book) much inferior.
>
> 2017-09-07 1:46 GMT+02:00 ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Yeah, carnival can be one person's anarchy or silly.
>>
>> Ever read Cuckoo's Nest? Maybe that was a long time ago. And, well,
>> with the film, most readers forget most of the details, so... and,
>> well,  the book, KK's attempt to pay tribute to Melville and M-D, and,
>> while at it,  write a GAN,  a counter cultural carnivalsque satire
>> about work in America... the boys in the hospital decide to have a
>> carnival. It's a break from the routine, the chores, the work. RPM is
>> out to organize the boys into men, American men in a radical
>> democracy. Now the Big Nurse, others might see a carnival as
>> dangerous. There is something akin to anarchy in RPM and the boys when
>> they become aware of their exploitation, of their potential to make
>> meaningful play. What, with a homosexual, a half Indian, and the rest
>> of the whole sick crew, their not exactly a labor force.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivalesque
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 8:40 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> > I hear what you are saying, Anarchy seems llike a crazy goal. I hear a
>> > difference between anarchy and anarchism. Anarchy is more frequently used to
>> > describe a disorderly state than to describe a community without rulers. Old
>> > growth forests have no rulers but they are rarely seen as anarchy.
>> >
>> > As far as human societies or times with no clear rulers or where power
>> > is shared equally, it actually happens a lot, but mostly on a local level.
>> > There are neighborhoods, towns, urban and rural communities where harmony is
>> > stronger than tyranny, anyone can have a say if they are respectful to
>> > others, and people cooperate to solve problems  and make their community
>> > sustainable.. Often in these places there are obvious leaders , but they are
>> > leaders because they are respected and generous , not because they domineer
>> > in a hierarchical power structure.
>> >
>> > The issue of sustainability seems to me to go to the heart of all failed
>> > systems. Is capitalism sustainable? Is fossil fuel based technology
>> > sustainable? Is the rule of 51% sustainable? Oligarchy has endured for a
>> > long time but is it sustainable?  Is american empire sustainable.
>> >
>> > The anarchist golf game may have seemed silly to you but it reminded me
>> > of good times with crazy friends being goofy. Mardis Gras looks silly to
>> > some but I can tell that for you it allows powerful self-liberation.  Most
>> > people have times in life of liberating rituals of rule -breaking and
>> > mockery of sacred cows. The discussions that take place in the golf game are
>> > really funny and actually rather subtle and intellectually lively.
>> > When it came time to do something   at Yzles-Bains the anarchists at the
>> > center of the story ended up with the unlikely focus of song-gathering in
>> > Thrace looking for remnants of neo-Pythagoreans identifiable because they
>> > favor the Phrygian musical mode.  We can’t entirely tell if it is a cover
>> > story or simply a wacky pursuit that opens doors of synchronicity and puts
>> > our merry band in the right place to see hope in the midst of horror and
>> > discover their unexpected inner strength and heroism. Part of the goal is to
>> > show readers more aspects of how the battle lines of a world war were in
>> > place  before it began . For Reef, Cyprian and Yashmeen this gathering leads
>> > them toward a period of profound transformation. To me the point is that
>> > each person is very limited in what they can do, but there are avenues that
>> > emerge from friendship and bold exploration that can effect powerful change.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Sep 4, 2017, at 5:35 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I only push this because Pynchon does, and it needs context.  For P,
>> >> Anarchy goes back to GRs Zone, a place of crazy freedom in wake of total
>> >> collapse, which can't be sustained.  It is not a model of sustained living,
>> >> despite AGD's silly golf game.  It is a very short-lived thing.
>> >>
>> >> David Morris
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:16 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> So your anarchism jag isn't a real proscription.  It is a plaything.  A
>> >> Pynchon fanboy thing.
>> >>
>> >> David Morris
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 3:57 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Anarchism as I wrote about it here is working with whatever, jumping in
>> >> spontaneously before or with  FEMA HELP and FEMA is goddam necessary OR
>> >> ELSE. ...More incalculable deaths and reams of suffering and hurt.
>> >>
>> >> I wrote " part" of....not as a guiding political philosophy, like
>> >> libertarianism, which is  perhaps the exact opposite of helping ANYONE but
>> >> oneself. ...anarchism allows selflessness.
>> >>
>> >> I just read a decent piece about the horrible tornado in Kansas,
>> >> killing more than Harvey has, and the gist was FEMA was invaluable for money
>> >> (paid 90% of clean-up cost) and worked best when "spontaneous groups" --like
>> >> churches-- local leaders and Orgs were the go-to ones for advice and
>> >> disbursement.
>> >>
>> >> And I'm a big Govt " liberal" myself. Who loves selfless helping and
>> >> dancing. Esp in musicals.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 4, 2017, at 1:59 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Anarchism is akin to Libertarianism: freedumb from guvmint!
>> >>>
>> >>> Imagine a world in Houston without FEMA!  Such a dream!
>> >>>
>> >>> And no interstate highways!  And no EPA!  And no Medicare or Social
>> >>> Security!
>> >>>
>> >>> You may sat I'm a dreamer, but they're about to be deported.
>> >>>
>> >>> David Morris
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 11:48 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> Anarchism. Pervasive as we know (and been written about).
>> >>>
>> >>> Anarchism, not as any kind of policy or new government notion but
>> >>> precisely as getting shit done without government, outside of it.
>> >>>
>> >>> The natural way hundreds of thousands of simple citizens
>> >>> "self-organized"--
>> >>> this is the key,-- like the deaf-mute dance under the bridge where
>> >>> everyone
>> >>> dances together without bumping with no one having to direct the
>> >>> dancing--
>> >>> like the search and rescue and help operation in Houston after Harvey.
>> >>>
>> >>> Since a guy named Prince wrote about the "spontaneous groupings" of
>> >>> volunteer
>> >>> help after the Halifax explosion disaster , it has always been a part
>> >>> of every disaster
>> >>> since. They say.
>> >>>
>> >>> Spontaneous groupings = self-organizing= equal apolitical, non-violent
>> >>> anarchism in
>> >>> the real world.
>> >
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
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