Black Holes in the collective unconscious

Tue Feb 20 04:24:04 CST 2018

The chapter begins with the phrase 'Void,of Course' and
that 'Faith into a City preparing for Night'.....

is a pretty bleak perspective on Faith, I'd aver.

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com> wrote:

> p. 183: "He is releas'd at the sour gray end of afternoon into a City
> preparing for Night,--descending into Faith, from one Opportunity to
> the next, as once, early in his Grief for Rebekah, he descended into
> Sin."
>
> Faith and Doubt as two sides of the same psychic coin?
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:01 AM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In terms of where this is visible...
> >
> > Mason's rejection of his father--thus of the things his father
> > represents, eucharist, patriarchy, etc.
> >
> > Mason's devotion to stargazing, which Pynchon goes way out of his way
> > to suggest is socially aberrant.
> >
> > Mason's desperate embrace of Dixon's Quaker meditation.
> >
> > Mason's negotiations with himself on first seeing Rebekah's ghost.
> >
> > Mason's abiding suspicions about the forces his own countrymen have
> > played in his and Dixon's fate.
> >
> > Granted not all of these pertain to Anglicanism per se, as much as
> > some of them pertain to patriarchal/orthodox Anglo-ism.
> >
> >
> > But if you're trying to argue the opposite, there's plenty of evidence
> > for that. He is more orthodox than Dixon. And has molded his values
> > more to something urban and zeitgeisty than Dixon, for all his
> > ridiculous get-up, has. Mason does occasionally seem more retrograde
> > or even reactionary in response to the new things he and Dixon have
> > encountered in departure from Britain (though this may be the
> > melancholy more than Mason's innatest disposition).
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:21 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>  "He is also not so dedicated to Anglican doctrine or hierarchy"....
> >> Smoke, Where find ye this?
> >>
> >> "Open to any spiritual experience" might be another phrase for
> desperately
> >> doubting.....?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 9:47 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the kind remarks. The topic really got me going and I have
> one
> >>> more aspect I want to explore.
> >>> > On Feb 18, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > "He is also not so dedicated to Aglican doctrine or hierarchy  as he
> >>> > is to friendly end equitable human relations and open to any
> spiritual
> >>> > experience that might explain the loss of his wife"
> >>> >
> >>> > Good thing to emphasize as we follow Mason forward.
> >>> >
> >>> > "Only the Taoists and similarly disposed non-dualists seek to diffuse
> >>> > and neutralize this balance, make it into a circle where death and
> >>> > life, dark and light,  are equally needful to the whole."
> >>> >
> >>> > Is this true beyond the spiritual traditions we've seen depicted in
> >>> > the first ~300pg. of the novel? Are there not any systems of
> >>> > mythistory and iconography that assign special and integral power to
> >>> > the spiritual forces of the night?
> >>> I would say that there are quite a few. Artemis was a goddess of night,
> >>> the moon, wildness, hunting, but the Greeks had a bunch of deities of
> >>> darkness, underworld, death, dreams etc. They mostly seem to have both
> >>> benign and scary aspects. Being a god is a shitload of responsibility
> and
> >>> not everyone handles it well.
> >>>
> >>> Here is a line from the Norse Edda ( wikipedia )
> >>> Hail to the Day! Hail to the sons of Day!
> >>> To Night and her daughter hail!
> >>> With placid eyes behold us here,
> >>> and here sitting give us victory.
> >>> Hail to the Æsir! Hail to the Asyniur!
> >>> Hail to the bounteous earth!
> >>> Words and wisdom give to us noble twain,
> >>> and healing hands while we live![5]
> >>>
> >>> As in Chinese and many mythic structures feminine is linked to
> darkness,
> >>> male to light. but not with  negative connotations.
> >>> So many texts, stories  and cultures were obliterated by colonialism
> and
> >>> war. I particularly grieve the loss of  a great deal of celtic lore.
> >>>
> >>> this is exerpted from a telling of an Iriquois creation story
> >>> "Even in her death, the mother of the two boys was still making sure
> that
> >>> they had what they needed to survive.  She is called Mother Earth and
> to
> >>> this day she still supports all of the people, animals and plants.
> >>>
> >>> The twin boys grew up and went about the task of creating everything
> that
> >>> is found in the natural world. They made rivers, flowers, animals and
> >>> eventually they made the human beings.  The left-handed twin became the
> >>> keeper of the night and the right-handed twin became the keeper of the
> day.
> >>> When they were done making their creations, everything was in perfect
> >>> balance.”
> >>>  The earth mother’s head becomes the moon watching over the earth and
> >>> ruling the waters and all women.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > All the rest of this is really great thinking--I like everything you
> >>> > say about Pynchon's quasi-binary interpretation of the Black Hole of
> >>> > Calcutta.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
> wrote:
> >>> >> Black Hole
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Black - absence of light,  presence of all pigments,  mysterious,
> >>> >> unknowable, unseeable, zoroastrian- spiritual darkness/ equivalent
> of evil,
> >>> >> death, unlit underworld,  unillumined space between the stars,  for
> some
> >>> >> semitic bible interpreters black skin was the mark of Cain ((cursed
> son of
> >>> >> Adam and Eve (Moses married Ethiopian woman and Shulamite of the
> Song of
> >>> >> Songs was black skinned so perhaps not so clear)), during colonial
> perod
> >>> >> skin color became  the base for a caste system favoring white skin
> and
> >>> >> denigrating black, the day night cycle.the pupil of the eye
> >>> >>
> >>> >> This relation of consciousness and life  to the light/dark spectrum
> is
> >>> >> more than just cultural. Because of its omnipresent physical
> importance
> >>> >> there is practically no way for it not to assume  major cultural
> >>> >> significance. Only the Taoists and similarly disposed non-dualists
> seek to
> >>> >> diffuse and neutralize this balance, make it into a circle where
> death and
> >>> >> life, dark and light,  are equally needful to the whole.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Interestingly Pynchon actually moves the reader through many
> >>> >> permutations of culture and direct experience in relation to
> blackness and
> >>> >> whiteness. We find that Mason’s original interest in the stars, that
> >>> >> ultimate field of light and dark was kindled as an avenue into a
> larger
> >>> >> scale of being , but also that he is an earthy man with powerful
> human
> >>> >> appetites and that he is conflicted by the subservience of
> astronomic
> >>> >> inquiry to the political goals of empire and commerce. He is also
> not so
> >>> >> dedicated to Aglican doctrine or hierarchy  as he is to friendly end
> >>> >> equitable human relations and open to any spiritual experience that
> might
> >>> >> explain the loss of his wife. The corruption he sees and the
> corruption he
> >>> >> suspects fits the doctrine of original sin, but moral and
> philosophical
> >>> >> questions are settled in his life as much by the pressures of
> survival as by
> >>> >> a free inquiry.  Even the balance of light and dark in the heavens
> is not a
> >>> >> neutral refuge, even the self declared freedom of the American
> revolution
> >>> >> continues much of the cruelty of the colonial project.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> In my reading Pynchon marks the Black Hole of Calcutta as a
> combination
> >>> >> of 2 interconneced  mythic forces. One is the potentially
> terrifying end of
> >>> >> the colonial project where all that the white europeans  have done
> to others
> >>> >> is visited on them and both individual and culture is forced to see
> that it
> >>> >> has created a hell and deserves to inherit that utter dismemberment
> of
> >>> >> humanity and biospheric balance that it has pursued. Thus The Black
> Hole
> >>> >> comes to haunt  the psyche as the ultimate fear.( This theme of
> dreadful
> >>> >> revenge first appears in stories in Slow Learner) The second is an
> act of
> >>> >> denial and reversal that is breath-taking in its bold dishonesty
> and common
> >>> >> as dirt, the Black Hole becomes a rallying point for for the
> continuation of
> >>> >> violence against non-whites.The violence of those who resist
> subjugation is
> >>> >> seen as the innate violent nature of the uncivilized and the core
> difference
> >>> >> between the fair-skinned and the darker skinned.
> >>> >>  Is there a 3rd option? A zero point of potential recreation from
> >>> >> dissolution? Is it simply the gracious acceptance of death and a
> humble
> >>> >> rebirth as part of a whole rather than the almighty I.  As I read
> Pynchon,
> >>> >> the darkest places always contain this seed.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>  As readers we go from the midwinter warmth and safety of  an
> extended
> >>> >> egalitarian family, asked to identify with  curious chidren on the
> brink of
> >>> >> the adult world,  on a global journey which takes us through the
> heart of
> >>> >> the age of enlightenment, from the old world with its many layers
> through
> >>> >> the cruel beginnings of corporate capitalism,  sexual adventures,
> spiritual
> >>> >> quests,  philosophic questions,  to wilderness and cultural
> adventures in
> >>> >> the new world. The entire story is shaped by questions of ownership
> and
> >>> >> boundaries, who owns what and how boundaries are made and
> maintained.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> This could be grim stuff but it can also be hilarious as we smoke
> pot
> >>> >> with George Washington and his black Hebrew plantation manager,
> catch
> >>> >> Cherrycoke’s subversive jokes, or consider the passionate lovesick
> flight of
> >>> >> the mechanical duck of the future.  And Pychon brings in Taoists and
> >>> >> children’s questions and native people to   point at a different
> set of
> >>> >> boundary making forces: rivers, mountains, kivas, earth serpents
> and feng
> >>> >> shui masters suggesting magnetic lines, cultural conversation,
> regard for
> >>> >> beauty, balance of power, mutual respect, friendliness.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -
> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>> > -
> >>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>
> >>
>
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