M&D CH 6 Notes

[Smoke Teff]

I see plenty of thematic/conceptual overlap between F and P, though
hesitate to claim textual influence. But F's work on the panopticon,
on the enforcement of discipline through and into the body of the
human being, fit very nicely with many of P's paranoid conceptions of
power structures and the way they influence the human.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:28 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm simply bouncing off JT's insightful reading of the use of ships.
> One of Foucault's major concerns is hegemony, so in this,  surely
> we can easily see Foucault in TRP.
> Specifically, both are concerned with How hegemony both makes and
> maintains social order and control
>
> how it then excludes vulnerable groups by defining or classifying them
> as mad, or deviant, or so on,
>
> and how it justifies, in the name or social order, the use of its
> power, again, to exclude, in leper colonies, on prison ships, in
> houses for the mad.
>
> What F calls the great confinement is described in Madness &
> Civilization. The bureaucratic, and social "scientific" control,
> aims at knowledge, claims truth, history, and even justice, but is
> merely power that is made legitimate by power.
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, some good stuff JT as I've already said and I want to add two things:
>>
>> Since the globalization of the 'modern world' in the 20th Century has
>> become such a thing as to merit tons of books and major revisions of
>> economics--by the reality-attuned (not just the abstract theory
>> explains it all economists)--I noticed while recently looking up
>> articles on Moby Dick that there are some now which deal with it as
>> 'the first novel of globalization or 'first American'). I say TRP made
>> M & D the second--a joak rank here, of course.
>>
>> And, barroom talk doesn't matter in M & D? I suggest it and
>> coffeehouse talk is what TRP thinks most matters. In all the humanly
>> important and anti-political, anti-State ways that so matters.
>>
>> I can never see Foucault in TRP but surely my lack, right?
>>
>> On 1/28/18, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Very nice on ships and alienation and so on.
>>> Foucault's _Madness & Civilization_ is useful here too.
>>>
>>> Also, JT, your use of the word capitalism often confuses me. What kind
>>> of capitalism are you talking about here?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 5:03 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>>> ships as holographs: of state, community,  pursuit of fortune, colonizers
>>>> and soldiers of empire, piracy, powers structures, fragility of life in
>>>> the unpredictable universe of physical forces
>>>>
>>>> By giving us ships from many angles from Mason’s  toy gifts to nephews, to
>>>> affairs of the Frigate, shipboard relations, even the narrowing of
>>>> musicians on the Seahorse to the lone player of a martial-keyed fife which
>>>> seems to parallel Mason’s reflections on the narrowing of choice, P
>>>> directs us to think about their central role for empire building,
>>>> capitalism, technological development social and power structures.
>>>>
>>>> He makes the point that ships are artificial and fragile and dangerous and
>>>> that their role is to carry men and wealth  and power between worlds. The
>>>> ships themselves are often repaired in ports where crews change in
>>>> constant search of a better situation.  The insularity of habits of those
>>>> conveyed seems to be reinforced by the structures of power, and insularity
>>>> of the world of the ship.  So when the Dutch or English arrive in their
>>>> new ‘home’ old habits prevail, and their religion always tells them they
>>>> are going someplace else, so what they build has much in common with a
>>>> fort, their loyalties are to a system that provides rank and status and
>>>> the particular balance between security and insecurity favored by the
>>>> prevailing power. Human solidarity and realistic self knowledge is the
>>>> positive side of shipboard life.
>>>>
>>>> One word for all this is alienation - not being at home in a place and
>>>> culture, not being home in one’s body( Mason), not even being at home in
>>>> one’s home . The result is to draw lines ( class, religion, education,
>>>> state, town)and make claims, but the empire of capital regards all lines
>>>> as temporary and disposable when profit is at sake.
>>>>
>>>> I don’t think P is negating the human expansiveness of trade and travel. I
>>>> don’t see that, but he seems make a distinction between the non aggressive
>>>> travel of the personal adventure and colonialism.This difference is
>>>> explored more thoroughly in ATD  What is funny about the paranoia directed
>>>> at Jesuits is the colonialist   similarity of the jesuit mission to that
>>>> of the critics.
>>>>
>>>> Another refrain is the vaunting of English freedom contrasted with the
>>>> constraint that you can’t speak freely in England, shouldn’t do so on a
>>>> ship, and are under surveillance in the colonies. The only place where
>>>> there is relative freedom of expression is barrooms where nothing really
>>>> counts and St. Helena where it seems to drive men bonkers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:31 PM, Smoke Teff <smoketeff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> CHAPTER 6
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 47
>>>>>
>>>>> “patently a warning to the Astronomers, from Beyond. Tho’ men of
>>>>> Science, both now confess’d to older and more Earthly
>>>>> Certainties[…]the Royal S. wrote back in the most overbearing way, on
>>>>> about loss of honor.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The stuff about the warning is interesting enough. But the Royal S.’s
>>>>> words somewhat echo the narration later in talking about the forces
>>>>> that send (specifically American) pioneers on their way into the
>>>>> unknown:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cf p. 212: “The Pilgrim, however long or crooked his Road, may keep
>>>>> ever before him the Holy Place he must by his Faith seek, as the
>>>>> American Ranger, however indeterminate or unposted his Wilderness, may
>>>>> enjoy, ever at his Back, the Impulse of Duty he must, by his Honor,
>>>>> attend.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’Philadelphia Soap’[…]often leaves things dirtier than they were
>>>>> before its application.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Feels somewhat metaphorickal, unless someone knows of a historical
>>>>> verification? But also funny, and paradoxickal enough that we might
>>>>> keep it in our heads going forward.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Loxodrome”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Google’s ngram suggests anachronistic?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 48
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “pretends to weigh his Choice.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A really funny and recognizable moment, but also thematickally
>>>>> relevant, performance of free will when none exists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’’Tis the Holy Bible, Sir.’
>>>>>
>>>>> “’No matter, ‘tis Print,--Print causes Civil Unrest,--Civil Unrest in
>>>>> any Ship at Sea is intolerable.’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As we think more about what ships represent on these voyages, cf. p.
>>>>> 220, “[Emerson] has devis’d a sailing-Scheme, whereby Winds are
>>>>> imagin’d to be forms of Gravity acting not vertically but laterally,
>>>>> along the Globe’s Surface,--a Ship to him is the Paradigm of the
>>>>> Universe. ‘All the possible forces in play are represented each by its
>>>>> representative sheets, stays, braces, and shrouds and such,--a set of
>>>>> lines in space, each at its particular angle. Easy to see why
>>>>> sea-captains go crazy,--godlike power over realities so simplified….’”
>>>>> P thinking both systematickally and symbolickally
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Coffee [causes Civil Unrest] as well”
>>>>>
>>>>> Coffee, I think, comes in for variegated treatment here. Perhaps as a
>>>>> kind of blanket (but artificial, in its way) accelerant of human
>>>>> energies, it is a technology that can be put to ends as good or bad as
>>>>> the humans imbibing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “How is any of this going to help restore me to the ‘ordinary World’?”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cherrycoke seeking restoration, a kind of death-wish yearning for
>>>>> innocence, for an innocent soul and an innocent world==as we all are.
>>>>> Of course, he wisely instructs us: “these are the very given
>>>>> Conditions of the ‘ordinary World.’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Take me back to the Cross-Roads,/Let me choose, once again”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> THIS part is important, I think, because here we see the emphasis on
>>>>> alternate paths—alternate future histories, etc—as being related to
>>>>> the wish for innocence, for return, for death.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 49
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We see the malevolent aggression of the sea captain, and then Mason’s
>>>>> objections. Then our astronomer from the north notes: “’A Quaker might
>>>>> say, ‘tis war that’s insane, and Frigate captains only more open about
>>>>> it…?’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> War is a force that moves through people, uses them for
>>>>> instruments—we’ve seen this time and again in Pynchon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’You go about in this,--forgive me,--this Coat, Hat, and Breeches of
>>>>> unmistakably military color and cut,==’
>>>>>
>>>>> “’Upon the theory that a Representation of Authority, whose extent no
>>>>> one is quite sure of, may act as a deterrent to Personal Assault.’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess this is kind of Hobbesian? State as monopolist of violence,
>>>>> etc. But also we see that these kinds of authority—“whose extent no
>>>>> one is quite sure of”—achieve, advertise, and obfuscate the nature of
>>>>> that extent by preying on/appealing to the self-interest and fears of
>>>>> those who can align with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’==not to mention this Ocean of Ale flowing thro’ you’”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The big step forward in closeness they took post-near-death is fraying
>>>>> somewhat—or perhaps allowing for more intimate kinds of disagreement.
>>>>> But we’re seeing Mason’s temperance (sorta), stuffiness is more like,
>>>>> judgment, elitism, so forth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Yet a Shark is a Shark, in the day or the dark”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven’t even seen West Side Story and I recognize this reference
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “There’s nought an Astronomer won’t do for Work.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Astronomers seem to be kind of bohemian in terms of their attitudes
>>>>> toward what apparently meager astronomy work is available, at least if
>>>>> you ask an astronomer’s father, e.g. Charles Mason, Sr.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “the Immortality of Ships,--new masts stepp’d in and Yards set,
>>>>> Riggers all over her[…] yet slow as Clock-hands, Wood, Hemp, and
>>>>> Canvas Resurrection would proceed. Three weeks and she was whole
>>>>> again.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So more on the sea as providing some kind of resurrection, or some
>>>>> boundary between life and death. Also, this seems to be referencing
>>>>> the paradox of Theseus’s Ship
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 51
>>>>>
>>>>> “Capt. Grant surreptitiously flicked the Quill, trying to spatter
>>>>> ink-drops[…]”
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to be both extending and parodying the notion from earlier in
>>>>> the chapter of print being any kind of potent weapon, especially on a
>>>>> ship.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Admiralty Fopling”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The name marks him as a comic character, but who is he working for,
>>>>> exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’Truth’…?[…]Perhaps I am not your ideal Confidant[…]divided Loyalties
>>>>> sort of thing….”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Who else is he loyal to that impels a will to disbelief?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “the Rumor that my Predecessor was order’d there in full knowledge
>>>>> that ‘twas already in the hands of the French”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fate, fate being known and decided not only for you—but before you
>>>>> even have your own job. Feels also like it relates to the question of
>>>>> elect v preterite
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “so much more swiftly than the Trade Winds, these Days, do the Winds
>>>>> of Diplomacy blow.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Somewhat mysterious line for me. I can understand the notion that the
>>>>> ambitions of colonial governments keep extending farther and
>>>>> farther—but don’t these ambitions also include ambitions for commerce?
>>>>> One thing happening in the 7 Years War is that mercantilism, through
>>>>> the filter of war, is translating into capitalism.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “a Source of pre-civiliz’d Sentiment useful to his Praxis of now and
>>>>> then pretending to be insane, thus deriving an Advantage over any
>>>>> unsure as to which side of Reason he may actually stand upon.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lots of resonance here. One: Cherrycoke’s holy insanity. Two: isn’t
>>>>> there a big recurring theme of people pretending to be idiots in GR?
>>>>> Three: this comes shortly after Dixon’s idea about pretending to be
>>>>> affiliated with an authority in order to derive advantage. Insanity
>>>>> and obedience to military authority are kind of tied together here?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 52
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “till the final eight Bells, when Mason reaches for a Loaf and a
>>>>> Bottle and becomes upon the instant convivial as anyone has ever seen
>>>>> him.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mason is compelled to keep not only Rebekah’s memory alive—but also
>>>>> his own grief? She lives in his pain, at least he might think. Also:
>>>>> interesting that his grief ritualistically ends with the final bell.
>>>>> Goes to show how powerful our notions of the day are.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “and what is a Village, without Village Idiots? Ev’ryone on board
>>>>> knows who the Madmen are, and that they are here as security against
>>>>> the Forces of Night”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthers the notion of the uses of insanity—except it makes the object
>>>>> of the advantage of insanity not merely the individual but the
>>>>> ship/village/community
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Other kinds of beings who are thus far described as USEFUL (to adult
>>>>> humans): children, dogs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “that Other World of which Wapping is the anteroom”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anteroom from GR, obviously. The notion of the earthly world around us
>>>>> conforming to some of these archetypal structures (as defined by our
>>>>> psychic forces), realms, etc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “understanding that nothing would go away now, and that Shot was
>>>>> inevitable, ‘morphosing to extensions of a single Engine homicidal”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Recalls one of the central metaphors of the book, the idea of America
>>>>> as a kind of engine. I’m not sure what kind of traction the idea of an
>>>>> engine would have around 1760—but certainly they are in some kind of
>>>>> collective reservoir of mechanickal ideas-to-be. Also, again, the
>>>>> emphasis on homicide.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And the notion of inevitability is not new in the book, but the
>>>>> inevitability of violence seems so.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 53
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (cont’d from 52)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “in that general and ungovernable Tip of Soul, what allow’d us to hear
>>>>> the Musick so keenly?”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ungovernability at the core (or just the edge?) of the soul is
>>>>> important to note as we try to build a potential moral/thesis.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In this rhetorical phraseology I hear echoes of the national anthem,
>>>>> also.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “the Fife being of standard Military issue, tun’d in that most martial
>>>>> of Scales[…]the fam’d Hanoverian Fifer Johann Ulrich, whom the Duke of
>>>>> Bedford had brought in after the previous War to instruct his
>>>>> Regimental Winds.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea of musical instruments being an instrument of continuity for
>>>>> the greater winds that move men. Also of music being, like technology,
>>>>> only as morally good/bad as the ends it is put to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 54
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’Cheerly. Cheerly, then, Lads….’”
>>>>>
>>>>> Obvious continuity with the opening to AtD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 55
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “Mr. Higgs’s Obsessedness as to Loose Ends”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “alternatives to Ennui[the steps from Boredom to Discontent to Unwise
>>>>> Practices are never shorter than aboard a Sixth-Rate upon a long
>>>>> Voyage, Sir”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ennui, according to the ngram viewer, doesn’t start coming into
>>>>> English usage until…right around this period, actually. Right
>>>>> around—maybe we ought notice—the industrial revolution. DFW has a
>>>>> similar riff (delivered via a ghost in The Pale King) on the
>>>>> increasing usage of the words BORE/BORING as we think of them now,
>>>>> starting in the industrial revolution as an apparent take-off on BORE
>>>>> meant in the more mechanickal sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The conflation of idleness and sin (and their analogous opposition to
>>>>> usefulness and…whatever the opposite of sin is, probably understood as
>>>>> some kind of spiritual currency) a theme in this book (many of P’s
>>>>> books, really) and to the best of my knowledge seems especially
>>>>> emergent around this time?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 56
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “’But that for one Instant[…]our Shadows lay perfectly beneath us[…]
>>>>> Tolls exacted for passage thro’ the Gate of the single shadowless
>>>>> Moment[…] So must there be a Ritual of Crossing Over, serving to focus
>>>>> each Pollywog’s Mind upon the Step he was taking.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Reminds me of the solar sound shadow bit from GR (which will pop up in
>>>>> other ways later in this book). Also, more on the kinds of realms
>>>>> humans pass between, and the use of ritual as a means of either
>>>>> marking, paying toll for (i.e. earning/securing), or perhaps creating…
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> p. 57
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “as if secure forever in a warm’d, melodious Barcarole of indolent days”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Recognizable—when we find ourselves satisfied we often can’t conceive
>>>>> of the satisfaction ending. In fact, the ego—the instrument that makes
>>>>> and understands time—often can’t properly conceive of impermanence or
>>>>> present circumstances/emotions changing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also reminds me of the Sirens.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> “in denial of all we thought we knew, to smell the Land we are making
>>>>> for, the green fecund Continent, upon the Wind that comes from behind
>>>>> us”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In one of the books I read in the run-up to M&D, it mentioned that the
>>>>> first English settlers to America could smell the evergreen trees out
>>>>> on the ocean for something like fifteen miles before they reached
>>>>> shore.
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
-
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