NP: DeLillo on Trump's America

[Ian Livingston]

So he's disguised as a Ho Ho but he's really a Ding Dong? Clever fellow.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 7:06 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> His disguise is as the Wise Conservative pundit.  He (and David Brooks,
> but less so) are treated almost like emeritus professors of serious
> political insight.  Of course it's all media crap.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 8:55 PM Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He's disguised?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 1:40 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> George Will is just a disguised hack.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:31 PM Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > For some reason, my reply seems to have come out all choppy, with the
>>> > bottom paragraph missing.
>>> >
>>> > Not to repeat myself, but here is what I TRIED to write:
>>> >
>>> > I think the reason why so many of our best thinkers and artists and
>>> > other people who have previously proven to have useful and
>>> > enlightening opinions are having such a hard time getting their brains
>>> > around this historical moment's realpolitik is because their very
>>> > respectability and reputation precludes them from letting their minds
>>> > wander into the territories where today's most successful
>>> > sociopolitical and economic gamesplayers are operating.
>>> > The paranoia of the 70's (and of GR, the Senate Hearings on
>>> > Assassinations, Oglesby's Yankee Cowboy War theory, etc) is probably
>>> > the only paradigm equipped to provide an adequate diagnoses for our
>>> > present ills. Actual, literal sinister conspiracies, shaped by
>>> > fanatics of the occult and the Grand Design, with armies of
>>> > cult-of-violence Gammas as devoted foot-soldiers... start talking
>>> > about these things and you're relegated to the funny pages, mocked for
>>> > the rest of whatever you're allowed to retain of your career.
>>> > I mean, for Pete's sake! Look at what happened when Delillo DARED to
>>> > write his JFK-conspiracy-adjacent novel, LIBRA! Is it any wonder he'd
>>> > be a little gun-shy about wading into these reeking, Satanic fever
>>> > swamps?!
>>> > Maybe in two or three decades we'll be allowed to look back, like we
>>> > looked back on Strangelove not so long ago and realized "Holy shit...
>>> > Kubrick and Southern were more right than wrong about EVERYTHING." And
>>> > then maybe reputations will be rehabilitated (post mortem for most of
>>> > 'em)... and we can all go on being superior and snide again about
>>> > whatever fresh Hell we'll be enduring by then.
>>> >
>>> > Jerky
>>> >
>>> > PS - As for what happened to Delillo after publishing Libra, he was
>>> > savaged for months in various venues by such literary luminaries as
>>> > George Will, who called the novel "an act of bad citizenship", and
>>> > other right-tilting sources. I remember the clash and tumble, being a
>>> > fan and in university at the time.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 4:07 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Delillo went minimal after the brilliance of Libra Mao II and
>>> > Underworld. Zero K is probably the end of that run. it'll be
>>> interesting to
>>> > see what he comes up with.
>>> > >
>>> > > as for depicting the lunacy of a particular American way of viewing
>>> the
>>> > world (and its violence) currently I can't help but think of the Uncle
>>> Sam
>>> > character in Coover's the Public Burning. It's too bad the novel is
>>> old.
>>> > Sean Hannity and other Fox notables surely would be among the revelers
>>> in
>>> > Times Square.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-coovers-70s-novel-the-public-burning-eerily-anticipates-trump
>>> > >
>>> > > It’s in the “god” of The Public Burning, Uncle Sam, that Coover most
>>> > strikingly foresees Trump and his public. Based partly on Sam Slick,
>>> the
>>> > Yankee peddler, Uncle Sam pretends to be a populist strong man
>>> defending
>>> > American Christianity and protecting the little people from domestic
>>> and
>>> > foreign evil, but in fact Sam is an “incorrigible huckster, a
>>> sweet-talking
>>> > con artist,” a protean shape-shifter, the impure principle of
>>> performance
>>> > and entertainment, controlling characters and events to perpetuate his
>>> > power to control characters and events. It is Sam who moves the
>>> execution
>>> > from the prison at Sing Sing to Times Square where he assembles
>>> > entertainers, officials, and celebrities to create a ceremony that will
>>> > bind Americans together in a spasm of hate and vengeance, a festival
>>> that
>>> > takes to extremes the violent and vile emotions elicited in Trump’s
>>> > rallies. Like Trump, Sam is consistently vulgar in act and speech. He
>>> > strings together others’ phrases, slogans, clichés, and dog whistles
>>> from
>>> > centuries of American jingoism, racism, and misogyny. And also like
>>> Trump,
>>> > Sam has no respect for facts: History, he tells Nixon, “is more or less
>>> > bunk, as Henry Ford liked to say, as saintly and wise a pup as this
>>> > nation’s seen since the Gold Rush—the fatal slantindicular futility of
>>> > Fact! Appearances, my boy, appearances! Practical politics consists in
>>> > ignorin’ facts! Opinion ultimately rules the world!”
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:31 PM Thomas Eckhardt <
>>> > thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I am curious. What happened to DeLillo after he published "Libra"?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Kubrick and Southern were, of course, right about everything.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> > I mean, for Pete's sake! Look at what happened when Delillo DARED
>>> to
>>> > >> > write his JFK-conspiracy-adjacent novel, LIBRA! Is it any wonder
>>> he'd
>>> > >> > be a little
>>> > >> > gun-shy about wading into these reeking, Satanic fever swamps?!
>>> > >> >
>>> > >> > Maybe in two or three decades we'll be allowed to look back, like
>>> we
>>> > >> > looked back on Strangelove not so long ago and realized "Holy
>>> shit...
>>> > >> > Kubrick and Southern were more right than wrong about
>>> EVERYTHING." And
>>> > >> > then maybe reputations will be rehabilitated (post mortem for
>>> most of
>>> > >> > 'em)... and we can all go on being superior and snide again about
>>> > >> > whatever fresh Hell we'll be enduring by then.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> --
>>> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>