Kennedy Ice- up for grabs

Sun Nov 11 00:27:21 CST 2018

Wow, Becky! I love all these stats (I really do).  State land minus fed
land area is a nice tweak to measuring our US senate nowhere-land dumbfuck
quotient.  I guess population density per state might be a future
multiplier in weighting vote value.  But the qualifiers quickly multiply.
Each state starts with two, which then becomes state land area divided by
two:  State"X"Area/2.  But not all land area is equally occupiable.  And
shouldn't credit be given to states that have dedicated large areas to
state parks? And is military land either here nor there?

These are all fun imaginary arguments.

David Morris

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 9:20 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Fwiw,  about half the land in the western states is owned and managed by
> the Feds. I think almost 0 of New York State land is federal (except where
> there are office buildings).  Those western states which are under a lot of
> Fed control get 3 Congress people (1 Rep and 2 Senators).  New York has
> 27?
>
> Right now California is taking the Feds to court essentially claiming
> states rights (10th amendment) in regards to not wanting to follow Fed
> (Trump) guidelines about energy, immigration (sanctuary cities- border
> wall),  climate change,  marijuana legalization,  - maybe other things.
> These kinds of states rights battles and taxation without representation
> (equal protection) get flip-flopped all through our history.
>
>
> Becky
> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>
> > On Nov 10, 2018, at 12:10 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree. Change is inevitable. Even the GOP sees it coming, so they cheat
> > to hold on.  But this new blue house and the new blue governors will
> > counter their cheating some.  And demographics will drown them before
> long,
> > but "long" is a relative thing.  As a teen in the 70's I thought pot
> would
> > soon become legal.  "We" would soon be in charge.  How wrong I was about
> > "soon."
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:25 AM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> But change is coming, David. The Constitution may not change for a long
> >> time. It may act like a dam in the river, or better, a harmonica in the
> >> stream, with the notes bending towards the blues as the pace
> accelerates,
> >> but things are changing fast. The disparity cannot last. It's not just
> the
> >> disparity of power that is attracting people in the blue states to move
> to
> >> red states, it's economics. Already families from New York, New Jersey
> and
> >> other states in the population dense Northeast are streaming into North
> and
> >> South Carolina with the prospect of houses at 1/3 to 1/4 the cost, and
> >> minimal to no taxes. They do not necessarily have the same parochial
> values
> >> as the natives, and are used to services which they will seek in their
> new
> >> homes.
> >>
> >> The same will happen in the rest of the sunshine belt and west. Arizona
> is
> >> an example, but other rural states will feel the same effect. I'm sure
> some
> >> of the animus that motivates the rural red voters is the feeling that
> their
> >> culture is under threat and not just from migrants. If the Senate
> structure
> >> is unchangeable then the country will change around or through or over
> or
> >> under it, but the results will be the same. In the meantime, however,
> Trump
> >> and his allies will use the dependable fear and the racism it generates
> to
> >> swing elections and enrich themselves at whatever the cost to the rest
> of
> >> us, and to the environment.
> >>
> >> jody
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
> >>
> >> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >> On Saturday, November 10, 2018 1:33 PM, David Morris <
> fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I got the point, but called it a rant (a nice one) because the two-per
> >> state Senate structure won't ever be changed, however unfairly it awards
> >> power.  I only brought up Trump's popular vote deficit to show that the
> >> 52/1 example isn't reflected in the nation-wide divide (if 52 means blue
> >> and 1 means red).  The only reason this unfair power distribution is now
> >> seen as a Big Problem is because the GOP has gone power-mad, caring only
> >> for itself, not for the Country, and more sane (and ethical) minds are
> now
> >> desperate for a remedy.
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:09 AM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the compliment, but you're not quite getting my point. It's
> >>> not about Trump's numbers, Its about the tiny fraction of the
> population in
> >>> rural states whose senators are yielding enormous power over the vast
> >>> majority of the country, and are being played by Trump, et al., for
> that
> >>> reason. Maybe this timely op-ed by Paul Krugman, who compares Wyoming,
> with
> >>> even fewer people- 600,000- than North Dakota's 755,393, to
> California's
> >>> 35,000,000+, and yet has equal senatorial representation:
> >>>
> >>> "But here’s the thing: The Senate, which gives each state the same
> number
> >>> of seats regardless of population — which gives fewer than 600,000
> people
> >>> in Wyoming the same representation as almost 40 million in California —
> >>> drastically overweights those rural areas and underweights the places
> where
> >>> most Americans live."
> >>>
> >>> And,
> >>>
> >>> "So what happened Tuesday, with Republicans getting shellacked in the
> >>> House but gaining in the Senate, wasn’t just an accident of this
> year’s map
> >>> or specific campaign issues. It reflected a deep division in culture,
> >>> indeed values, between the American citizenry at large and the people
> who
> >>> get to choose much of the Senate.
> >>>
> >>> This divergence will have profound implications, because the Senate
> has a
> >>> lot of power, especially when the president — who, let us not forget,
> lost
> >>> the popular vote — leads the party that controls it. In particular,
> Trump
> >>> and his Senate friends will spend the next couple of years stuffing the
> >>> courts with right-wing loyalists.
> >>>
> >>> We may, then, be looking at a growing crisis of legitimacy for the U.S.
> >>> political system — even if we get through the constitutional crisis
> that
> >>> seems to be looming over the next few months."
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/opinion/midterms-senate-rural-urban.html
> >>>
> >>> But more importantly, Trump doesn't actually give a rat's ass about the
> >>> average folks in those states. He plays to their fears and tells them
> what
> >>> they want to hear- pretends he's their great white hope- and then goes
> off
> >>> to Mar-a-Lago, or Trump Tower, and signs off on the next tariff that
> will
> >>> end up crippling their economic future, or eliminating some regulation
> that
> >>> wil end up destroying their environment. They are merely a means to
> his and
> >>> his wealthy clients' ends.
> >>>
> >>> jody
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
> >>>
> >>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>> On Friday, November 9, 2018 2:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Jody,
> >>>
> >>> It's the Constitution we have. And the part ain't gunna get changed,
> ever
> >>> (though I dream of a parliament-style tweak).  But even so, Trump was
> >>> elected shy just 3 million popular votes, not 52/1.  But it was a nice
> rant.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:00 PM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hey Becky-
> >>>>
> >>>> I did think about you when I picked North Dakota to compare with
> >>>> California, re: the crazy way the Senate over compensates for majority
> >>>> rule. And that 11 y/o granddaughter- that couldn't be the "child of
> the
> >>>> storm" born in the wake of that F5 twister, could she be? If so, I'm
> >>>> getting old way to fast.  Thanks for responding.
> >>>>
> >>>> But no, I'm totally sympatico with the farmers of North Dakota,
> >>>> especially in juxtaposition to the agribusiness giants gobbling up
> farms
> >>>> that have been in families for generations- an American Tragedy
> supplanting
> >>>> The American Gothic:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gothic#/media/File:Grant_Wood_-_American_Gothic_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>> My aim was to indicate how the Trumpublicans are undermining democracy
> >>>> by using the Senate to allow minority rule and frustrate the will of
> the
> >>>> vast majority of the country, including many fair-minded folks in
> "red"
> >>>> states who voted for democrats, or even moderate leaning republicans
> who
> >>>> ccould't be heard in their own party. Trump does not care about North
> >>>> Dakota except as a means to a very bad end.
> >>>> But more people in rural states need to realize that his policies,
> >>>> wrapped in a sheep's clothing of pseudo-concern for their fears of
> being
> >>>> forgotten, are endangering their environment, and way of life.
> >>>>
> >>>> jody
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> >>>>
> >>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>>> On Thursday, November 8, 2018 6:12 PM, Becky Lindroos <
> >>>> bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If elections go to straight popular vote (or equal population ratios
> >>>> for states), who’s going to bother even listening to the concerns to
> any
> >>>> rural area, much less visiting? Will farm policies count anymore? Will
> >>>> commodities and farm land be heavily taxed - drop all those stupid
> >>>> subsidies to farmers? (Well, duh, who cares? Their scattered votes
> don’t
> >>>> count like the votes of millions of people concerned with prices and
> urban
> >>>> housing and transport.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nowhere near all farmers are anything like big business - many barely
> >>>> get by with both mom and pop doing other jobs like teaching and
> equipment
> >>>> repair. The prices they get are pretty well determined by big business
> >>>> (grain and bean buyers). It’s coming though, big business farms will
> rule
> >>>> if enough big city people want to stop rural US from getting a vote
> which
> >>>> actually counts. (ironic heh)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note - I’m kind of on the fence about this, but my family has been
> >>>> involved in farming (North Dakota no less) one farm since 1876),
> about 6
> >>>> generations plus one growing up. It got divided up so it’s not a big
> farm
> >>>> now. Family farms tend to sell out after about the 3rd generation,
> but this
> >>>> one and many others like it haven’t! My daughter and son-in-law farm
> it
> >>>> (while working as a teacher and a mechanic). It would be so cool if my
> >>>> granddaughters decided try it. One might but she’s still only 11. lol
> -
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Becky
> >>>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:19 AM, jody2.718 jody2.718 at protonmail.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> The future is cute and cuddly, but every time grandma tries to grab
> >>>> a hold of the "little bargain" he just seems to melt away. The U.S.
> Senate,
> >>>> however, now there's a real bargain.
> >>>>>> North Dakota- pop., 755,393, and Two senators
> >>>>>> California- pop., 39,536,653, and Two senators
> >>>>>> Ratio- about 52 : 1
> >>>>>> In Senatorial Mathematics, each person from North Dakota is worth
> >>>> 52+ Californians.
> >>>>>> Excuse me while I dust off my degree in rocket science, but in terms
> >>>> of power, why would anyone even bother trying to persuade the voting
> >>>> percentage of 39.5 million people in California to vote for them when
> the
> >>>> same effect could be had by persuading 2 percent of that many in North
> >>>> Dakota?
> >>>>>> 322,613 people voted in North Dakota for the senatorial race. In
> >>>> California, no senate seats up for re-election, but 7,140,132 people
> voted
> >>>> for the governorship. On a percentage basis the turnout was way
> higher in
> >>>> North Dakota- almost 43 % of the estimated 2017 population (hard to
> >>>> believe, actually), while in California, about 20% of the estimated
> 2017
> >>>> population voted for governor. Still, 51% of 322,613 in N.D. needed to
> >>>> control a senate seat, or about 165,000 votes, versus 51% of the
> estimated
> >>>> 7,140,132 voting public, or, about 3,641,500, in California- 22 times
> as
> >>>> many votes needed in California to control a senate seat.
> >>>>>> Where would you spend your money?
> >>>>>> "Does Dellman's sell Shoes?"
> >>>>>> [Population estimates- Wikipedia. Voting numbers- Washington Post]
> >>>>>> jody
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
>