Kennedy Ice- up for grabs

[Mark Kohut]

https://twitter.com/themadstone/status/1061636292713369600

On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 10:21 PM Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Fwiw,  about half the land in the western states is owned and managed by
> the Feds. I think almost 0 of New York State land is federal (except where
> there are office buildings).  Those western states which are under a lot of
> Fed control get 3 Congress people (1 Rep and 2 Senators).  New York has
> 27?
>
> Right now California is taking the Feds to court essentially claiming
> states rights (10th amendment) in regards to not wanting to follow Fed
> (Trump) guidelines about energy, immigration (sanctuary cities- border
> wall),  climate change,  marijuana legalization,  - maybe other things.
> These kinds of states rights battles and taxation without representation
> (equal protection) get flip-flopped all through our history.
>
>
> Becky
> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>
> > On Nov 10, 2018, at 12:10 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I agree. Change is inevitable. Even the GOP sees it coming, so they cheat
> > to hold on.  But this new blue house and the new blue governors will
> > counter their cheating some.  And demographics will drown them before
> long,
> > but "long" is a relative thing.  As a teen in the 70's I thought pot
> would
> > soon become legal.  "We" would soon be in charge.  How wrong I was about
> > "soon."
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 11:25 AM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> But change is coming, David. The Constitution may not change for a long
> >> time. It may act like a dam in the river, or better, a harmonica in the
> >> stream, with the notes bending towards the blues as the pace
> accelerates,
> >> but things are changing fast. The disparity cannot last. It's not just
> the
> >> disparity of power that is attracting people in the blue states to move
> to
> >> red states, it's economics. Already families from New York, New Jersey
> and
> >> other states in the population dense Northeast are streaming into North
> and
> >> South Carolina with the prospect of houses at 1/3 to 1/4 the cost, and
> >> minimal to no taxes. They do not necessarily have the same parochial
> values
> >> as the natives, and are used to services which they will seek in their
> new
> >> homes.
> >>
> >> The same will happen in the rest of the sunshine belt and west. Arizona
> is
> >> an example, but other rural states will feel the same effect. I'm sure
> some
> >> of the animus that motivates the rural red voters is the feeling that
> their
> >> culture is under threat and not just from migrants. If the Senate
> structure
> >> is unchangeable then the country will change around or through or over
> or
> >> under it, but the results will be the same. In the meantime, however,
> Trump
> >> and his allies will use the dependable fear and the racism it generates
> to
> >> swing elections and enrich themselves at whatever the cost to the rest
> of
> >> us, and to the environment.
> >>
> >> jody
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
> >>
> >> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >> On Saturday, November 10, 2018 1:33 PM, David Morris <
> fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I got the point, but called it a rant (a nice one) because the two-per
> >> state Senate structure won't ever be changed, however unfairly it awards
> >> power.  I only brought up Trump's popular vote deficit to show that the
> >> 52/1 example isn't reflected in the nation-wide divide (if 52 means blue
> >> and 1 means red).  The only reason this unfair power distribution is now
> >> seen as a Big Problem is because the GOP has gone power-mad, caring only
> >> for itself, not for the Country, and more sane (and ethical) minds are
> now
> >> desperate for a remedy.
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:09 AM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the compliment, but you're not quite getting my point. It's
> >>> not about Trump's numbers, Its about the tiny fraction of the
> population in
> >>> rural states whose senators are yielding enormous power over the vast
> >>> majority of the country, and are being played by Trump, et al., for
> that
> >>> reason. Maybe this timely op-ed by Paul Krugman, who compares Wyoming,
> with
> >>> even fewer people- 600,000- than North Dakota's 755,393, to
> California's
> >>> 35,000,000+, and yet has equal senatorial representation:
> >>>
> >>> "But here’s the thing: The Senate, which gives each state the same
> number
> >>> of seats regardless of population — which gives fewer than 600,000
> people
> >>> in Wyoming the same representation as almost 40 million in California —
> >>> drastically overweights those rural areas and underweights the places
> where
> >>> most Americans live."
> >>>
> >>> And,
> >>>
> >>> "So what happened Tuesday, with Republicans getting shellacked in the
> >>> House but gaining in the Senate, wasn’t just an accident of this
> year’s map
> >>> or specific campaign issues. It reflected a deep division in culture,
> >>> indeed values, between the American citizenry at large and the people
> who
> >>> get to choose much of the Senate.
> >>>
> >>> This divergence will have profound implications, because the Senate
> has a
> >>> lot of power, especially when the president — who, let us not forget,
> lost
> >>> the popular vote — leads the party that controls it. In particular,
> Trump
> >>> and his Senate friends will spend the next couple of years stuffing the
> >>> courts with right-wing loyalists.
> >>>
> >>> We may, then, be looking at a growing crisis of legitimacy for the U.S.
> >>> political system — even if we get through the constitutional crisis
> that
> >>> seems to be looming over the next few months."
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/opinion/midterms-senate-rural-urban.html
> >>>
> >>> But more importantly, Trump doesn't actually give a rat's ass about the
> >>> average folks in those states. He plays to their fears and tells them
> what
> >>> they want to hear- pretends he's their great white hope- and then goes
> off
> >>> to Mar-a-Lago, or Trump Tower, and signs off on the next tariff that
> will
> >>> end up crippling their economic future, or eliminating some regulation
> that
> >>> wil end up destroying their environment. They are merely a means to
> his and
> >>> his wealthy clients' ends.
> >>>
> >>> jody
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
> >>>
> >>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>> On Friday, November 9, 2018 2:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Jody,
> >>>
> >>> It's the Constitution we have. And the part ain't gunna get changed,
> ever
> >>> (though I dream of a parliament-style tweak).  But even so, Trump was
> >>> elected shy just 3 million popular votes, not 52/1.  But it was a nice
> rant.
> >>>
> >>> David Morris
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:00 PM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hey Becky-
> >>>>
> >>>> I did think about you when I picked North Dakota to compare with
> >>>> California, re: the crazy way the Senate over compensates for majority
> >>>> rule. And that 11 y/o granddaughter- that couldn't be the "child of
> the
> >>>> storm" born in the wake of that F5 twister, could she be? If so, I'm
> >>>> getting old way to fast.  Thanks for responding.
> >>>>
> >>>> But no, I'm totally sympatico with the farmers of North Dakota,
> >>>> especially in juxtaposition to the agribusiness giants gobbling up
> farms
> >>>> that have been in families for generations- an American Tragedy
> supplanting
> >>>> The American Gothic:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Gothic#/media/File:Grant_Wood_-_American_Gothic_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>> My aim was to indicate how the Trumpublicans are undermining democracy
> >>>> by using the Senate to allow minority rule and frustrate the will of
> the
> >>>> vast majority of the country, including many fair-minded folks in
> "red"
> >>>> states who voted for democrats, or even moderate leaning republicans
> who
> >>>> ccould't be heard in their own party. Trump does not care about North
> >>>> Dakota except as a means to a very bad end.
> >>>> But more people in rural states need to realize that his policies,
> >>>> wrapped in a sheep's clothing of pseudo-concern for their fears of
> being
> >>>> forgotten, are endangering their environment, and way of life.
> >>>>
> >>>> jody
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> >>>>
> >>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> >>>> On Thursday, November 8, 2018 6:12 PM, Becky Lindroos <
> >>>> bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If elections go to straight popular vote (or equal population ratios
> >>>> for states), who’s going to bother even listening to the concerns to
> any
> >>>> rural area, much less visiting? Will farm policies count anymore? Will
> >>>> commodities and farm land be heavily taxed - drop all those stupid
> >>>> subsidies to farmers? (Well, duh, who cares? Their scattered votes
> don’t
> >>>> count like the votes of millions of people concerned with prices and
> urban
> >>>> housing and transport.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nowhere near all farmers are anything like big business - many barely
> >>>> get by with both mom and pop doing other jobs like teaching and
> equipment
> >>>> repair. The prices they get are pretty well determined by big business
> >>>> (grain and bean buyers). It’s coming though, big business farms will
> rule
> >>>> if enough big city people want to stop rural US from getting a vote
> which
> >>>> actually counts. (ironic heh)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note - I’m kind of on the fence about this, but my family has been
> >>>> involved in farming (North Dakota no less) one farm since 1876),
> about 6
> >>>> generations plus one growing up. It got divided up so it’s not a big
> farm
> >>>> now. Family farms tend to sell out after about the 3rd generation,
> but this
> >>>> one and many others like it haven’t! My daughter and son-in-law farm
> it
> >>>> (while working as a teacher and a mechanic). It would be so cool if my
> >>>> granddaughters decided try it. One might but she’s still only 11. lol
> -
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Becky
> >>>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:19 AM, jody2.718 jody2.718 at protonmail.com
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> The future is cute and cuddly, but every time grandma tries to grab
> >>>> a hold of the "little bargain" he just seems to melt away. The U.S.
> Senate,
> >>>> however, now there's a real bargain.
> >>>>>> North Dakota- pop., 755,393, and Two senators
> >>>>>> California- pop., 39,536,653, and Two senators
> >>>>>> Ratio- about 52 : 1
> >>>>>> In Senatorial Mathematics, each person from North Dakota is worth
> >>>> 52+ Californians.
> >>>>>> Excuse me while I dust off my degree in rocket science, but in terms
> >>>> of power, why would anyone even bother trying to persuade the voting
> >>>> percentage of 39.5 million people in California to vote for them when
> the
> >>>> same effect could be had by persuading 2 percent of that many in North
> >>>> Dakota?
> >>>>>> 322,613 people voted in North Dakota for the senatorial race. In
> >>>> California, no senate seats up for re-election, but 7,140,132 people
> voted
> >>>> for the governorship. On a percentage basis the turnout was way
> higher in
> >>>> North Dakota- almost 43 % of the estimated 2017 population (hard to
> >>>> believe, actually), while in California, about 20% of the estimated
> 2017
> >>>> population voted for governor. Still, 51% of 322,613 in N.D. needed to
> >>>> control a senate seat, or about 165,000 votes, versus 51% of the
> estimated
> >>>> 7,140,132 voting public, or, about 3,641,500, in California- 22 times
> as
> >>>> many votes needed in California to control a senate seat.
> >>>>>> Where would you spend your money?
> >>>>>> "Does Dellman's sell Shoes?"
> >>>>>> [Population estimates- Wikipedia. Voting numbers- Washington Post]
> >>>>>> jody
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>