AI Thinks LIke a Corporation/Death of Insects

[David Morris]

I would argue that "we" are the corporation that some fear AI will serve.
It is a tool that serves best those who own it, obviously.  But an AI must
imitate some group's desires, whether that group is big or small.  I think
"ethics " in this context really means "desires."

What might be interesting is a forum where AI's could bump into each other,
compete, maybe cooperate.  That might be a path toward a closer version of
intelligence.

David Morris

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:17 PM John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think what the article makes clear is that what "we" want from AI
> doesn't matter - as far as I know nobody on the P-list is leading that
> charge, but certain people are and we shouldn't talk about the
> "progress" or "evolution" of a particular technology as if it's
> ahistorical and inevitable.
>
> A practical example: there's a lot of talk about the ethics of
> automated cars, and what their algorithms should take into account
> when deciding who dies in a crash. From all I've read/heard the
> discussion comes down to utilitarian ethics, and what would be the
> greater good in such a situation. But utilitarian ethics treats people
> as mathematical variables and is far from the only ethical model that
> could be applied, but it's the model that makes most sense from a
> programming standpoint, and perhaps the standpoint of a legal
> corporation trying to cover its posterior.
>
> Maybe the problem in AI thinking like a corporation is that
> corporations are very good at a lot of things (perpetuating their own
> survival, decentralised functioning, reorganising themselves to adapt
> to challenges, reducing individual culpability) but not so good at
> others (pretty much everything covered in the history of ethics).
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 4:08 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone think AI would be better with a chaos quotient?  I don't
> think so.  So Predictable Intelligence is our real goal. We want *smart*
> servants, not intelligence.  So, of course predictable AI will support
> corporate structures.
> >
> > it seems to me that AI is essentially imitative, not creative, not
> spontaneous.  It isn't really intelligent. We don't want it to talk back or
> even question us.  We won't ever tolerate that.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:47 PM Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yep. Chiming in with gratitude, Rick. Thanks.
> >> My answer to the concluding question is pending, though I tend toward
> the
> >> latter proposition.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:58 PM John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Thanks Rich, great read.
> >> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:41 AM bulb <bulb at vheissu.net> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Really excellent article, thank you Rich.  Working for a company
> that is
> >> > making massive investments in AI - this puts things in perspective..
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org> On Behalf Of rich
> >> > > Sent: dinsdag 27 november 2018 15:45
> >> > > To: “pynchon-l at waste.org“ <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> >> > > Subject: AI Thinks LIke a Corporation/Death of Insects
> >> > >
> >> > > thought you guys would be interested
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/11/26/ai-thinks-like-a-corporation-and-thats-worrying
> >> > >
> >> > > like everything else these days we're dazzled by the science not
> knowing
> >> > or caring about context, origins
> >> > >
> >> > > and this
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/magazine/insect-apocalypse.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
> >> > > --
> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> > --
> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >> >
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>