AI Thinks LIke a Corporation/Death of Insects

Wed Nov 28 04:45:38 CST 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE

Am Mi., 28. Nov. 2018 um 10:50 Uhr schrieb Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
>:

> "Dave, I'm sorry. I can't do that, Dave"...
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 4:22 AM John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Arthur's on the money. I was an AI skeptic like David for a long time,
> > until I learned the current prevailing method of development:
> > essentially pitting two AI against one another, each trying to
> > convince the other that it is "real", although the criteria for that
> > will vary. And each learns from the other's failures, and does a bit
> > better, and so on and so on in a reciprocal manner that is only
> > limited by the computing power and electricity. So yes, DM, they're
> > already talking among themselves, so to speak. But they can have
> > centuries of conversations in seconds.
> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 8:00 PM Arthur Fuller <fuller.artful at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > There is an old religious/philosophical question, originally from old
> > Jewish theology I think: if God is all-powerful, can he create something
> > greater than Himself? Applied to AI, this question describes what Ray
> > Kurzweil calls The Singularity. One has only to look at AlphaGO to see
> > this. The original AlphaGO soundly thumped the world's best GO player,
> > after having taught itself to play the game in two weeks, playing against
> > itself. It successor, AlphaGO Zero, played a 100-game match against its
> > progenitor, with a result of 100 games to zero.
> > > One can generalize this phenomenon: an AI will design and build its own
> > successor, and once that happens, further growth will proceed
> > exponentially. Kurzweil defined The Singularity as the moment when AI
> > becomes smarter than its creators. Once that happens -- and I (and
> others)
> > believe it surely will, then all bets, and all considerations about our
> > well-being, are off.
> > >
> > > Arthur
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 5:27 AM John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I think what the article makes clear is that what "we" want from AI
> > >> doesn't matter - as far as I know nobody on the P-list is leading that
> > >> charge, but certain people are and we shouldn't talk about the
> > >> "progress" or "evolution" of a particular technology as if it's
> > >> ahistorical and inevitable.
> > >>
> > >> A practical example: there's a lot of talk about the ethics of
> > >> automated cars, and what their algorithms should take into account
> > >> when deciding who dies in a crash. From all I've read/heard the
> > >> discussion comes down to utilitarian ethics, and what would be the
> > >> greater good in such a situation. But utilitarian ethics treats people
> > >> as mathematical variables and is far from the only ethical model that
> > >> could be applied, but it's the model that makes most sense from a
> > >> programming standpoint, and perhaps the standpoint of a legal
> > >> corporation trying to cover its posterior.
> > >>
> > >> Maybe the problem in AI thinking like a corporation is that
> > >> corporations are very good at a lot of things (perpetuating their own
> > >> survival, decentralised functioning, reorganising themselves to adapt
> > >> to challenges, reducing individual culpability) but not so good at
> > >> others (pretty much everything covered in the history of ethics).
> > >> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 4:08 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Does anyone think AI would be better with a chaos quotient?  I don't
> > think so.  So Predictable Intelligence is our real goal. We want *smart*
> > servants, not intelligence.  So, of course predictable AI will support
> > corporate structures.
> > >> >
> > >> > it seems to me that AI is essentially imitative, not creative, not
> > spontaneous.  It isn't really intelligent. We don't want it to talk back
> or
> > even question us.  We won't ever tolerate that.
> > >> >
> > >> > David Morris
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 9:47 PM Ian Livingston <
> > igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Yep. Chiming in with gratitude, Rick. Thanks.
> > >> >> My answer to the concluding question is pending, though I tend
> > toward the
> > >> >> latter proposition.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 1:58 PM John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Thanks Rich, great read.
> > >> >> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:41 AM bulb <bulb at vheissu.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > Really excellent article, thank you Rich.  Working for a
> company
> > that is
> > >> >> > making massive investments in AI - this puts things in
> > perspective..
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> > > From: Pynchon-l <pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org> On Behalf Of
> rich
> > >> >> > > Sent: dinsdag 27 november 2018 15:45
> > >> >> > > To: “pynchon-l at waste.org“ <pynchon-l at waste.org>
> > >> >> > > Subject: AI Thinks LIke a Corporation/Death of Insects
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > thought you guys would be interested
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> >
> https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/11/26/ai-thinks-like-a-corporation-and-thats-worrying
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > like everything else these days we're dazzled by the science
> not
> > knowing
> > >> >> > or caring about context, origins
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > and this
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> >
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/magazine/insect-apocalypse.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > --
> > >> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >> --
> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Arthur
> > >
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>