More underestimation of the Russians ' effect on the 2016 US election and government

[David Morris]

But do you deny the existence of The Mob?  Or is that a myth too?

Ask the wrong questions...

David Morris

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 7:15 PM jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com> wrote:

> I got to go with Rich on this one. All the influences that Joseph names
> are minuscule compared the daily heedless consumption and pooping into the
> environment of toxic, non-recyclable garbage by the average citizen. All
> the malevolent forces involved with the control of production and marketing
> of.same would dry up and blow away if ordinary people stopped consuming
> those overly convenient, and generally useless, products. They (we) won't
> and so we're probably doomed, sooner rather then later.
>
> jody
>
> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
>
> Richard:
>
> I don’t deny these elements exist. I just think the world sub rosa is a
> chaotic place. I don’t believe anyone is running anything. It’s this vast
> convoluted horrific at times nexus of ever changing alliances, some good
> some bad
>
> > On Jan 10, 2019, at 5:42 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >
> > It is actually much easier for most to believe there is no deep state.
> That seems rather naive at this point. I would be happy to elaborate on
> what that means to me and to those who use this particular phrase. What
> most mean is the nexus of several forces: 1) Central bankers and the
> multi-national corporate lawyers who have elaborated a system of tax
> avoidance and who shape trade policy, often directly writing that policy(
> as opposed to theoretically sovereign representative governments) 2) All
> the secretive spy agencies British, US, Israeli, Germany, French… and
> their connections to fundamental international policies of the Nato Powers
> and the dollar  as international reserve currency. 3) The neo -liberal
> corporate or state owned media that dominates the international media
> landscape 4) the power and influence of the fossil fuel industry in all its
> forms. 5) the arms and war industry
> >
> >  All of these forces combine to endorse and enforce the powers of
> capitalism and militarism  wherever these combined interests wish to
> override any of the following democratic forces: independent democratic
> choices by voters, accountability of the rich for financial or
> environmental crimes, accountability of warcrimes and those who perpetrate
> them etc., accountability of corporate human crimes like Bhopal, asbestos
> exposure, carcinogen exposure,  or global warming,  accountability for
> dumping of plastics and toxics etc., accountability for interference in
> democratic processes( Chile, Venezuela,Tibet,  Nicaragua, Iran, Brazil,
> Argentina, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Vietnam…. very long list)
> >
> > The deep state evolved at the nexus of government, military and money
> interests to protect the long term interests of powerful capitalists and
> imperial armies from the prospect of democratic movements that seek to put
> human and environmental issues above financial profit for the elite and
> the sick pride of imperial colonialist dominance.
> >
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