More underestimation of the Russians ' effect on the 2016 US election and government

[Joseph Tracy]

Ok, doomed not screwed. I Don’t really think the powers are banking on you personally but as I said and I quote “the attitude”. I have found this is quite a common attitude and by no means unique to you. As to what is forced on an unwilling population, that depends on the population and also the degree to which that population is accurately informed.  Many  populations have been killed or subjugated to dictators in  the the processes of mining, land grabbing, and other forms of resource extraction. These populations were in fact “unwilling” .  And environmentalists, human rights workers and journalist continue to be killed precisely because they gain popular support. A great deal of consent is as Chomsky elaborates, manufactured. Increasingly that mindset is the sum and substance of  the messaging of neo-liberal media. 
Local and personal  movements  for cultural change are great. I believe you and accept that your attitude is not one of "too bad”. I apologize for implying that is your personal attitude. Unfortunately it is not uncommon. I am very serious about personal and local community actions.  Everyone should take personal responsibility for what they can do. But serious change involves confronting very powerful forces. The idea that they are negligible is naive.  The idea that the needed changes can happen without a change in leadership and sane incentive structures is remote to impossible. Wherever there are strong local changes, there are calls for largr structural reforms. Calling war criminals "bogey men" as if they existed only in my personal imagination is unfounded. 


> On Jan 13, 2019, at 11:27 PM, jody2.718 <jody2.718 at protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> In your ranting I think you misquoted me. I said doomed not "screwed" and I certainly didn't say "too bad." And I doubt that the "power players" are banking on me. If so, "they"  have made a poor investment. Be that as it may, the system is as dependent on "high paid individuals and managers," as it is, on a distracted population, addicted to unnecessary consumption and profligate waste of irreplaceable resources. Wars, mining, fossil fuels, toxic waste, and the rest of your litany are obviously not forced on an unwilling populous, at least not in the U.S., and will not go away by changing leaders. It's a cultural problem, You can rant about bogey men forever and things won't change until the culture changes. And, by the way, I'm not swallowing any "lame excuses for a sick empire." I just think the revolution should start at home.
> 
> jody
> 
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> 
> Joseph:
> 
> I’m sorry but that is just hocus bogus and flat out wrong. Authoritarian structures headed by high power, high paid  individuals and managers are real and dominate  economies and politics.  Yes people are deeply complicit in this arrangement but it is just exactly the attitude of 'we are probably screwed, too bad' that the power players bank on. Your haughty view of the minuscule effects of wars and mining, oil powered transport, dumping of toxics, clear cutting of forests, murder of journalists, erosion of topsoil by heavy machinery fossi fuel agriculture etc. is hard to stomach.  There are humans in many places and whole countries who are choosing a different path while you swallow these lame excuses for a sick empire that is the only place where you or I have any say.
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