NP but Somehow Pynchonian to me. Dreams in the Third Reich.

[RZ]

“Well, now time passed and now it seems
everybody’s having them dreams… 

I’ll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours.”

> On Nov 8, 2019, at 7:27 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Fascism's ongoing rise has certainly had an effect on my own dreams
> and nightmares, that's for sure.
> 
> I find that my "dream self" is less certain of pretty much everyone he
> encounters in dreams, be they friend, family, or composite. I have
> more difficulty trusting these dream people, and they seem less
> capable of being reasoned with. I've had many dreams of people
> harboring hidden agendas and feeling more free to share their
> "politically incorrect" (i.e. fascist) opinions about, say, people of
> a different race, or people with a different set of political beliefs.
> 
> I feel as though a big part of the New Fascist International(e)
> "project" has been the inoculation of the minds that they've targeted
> for takeover against facts, reason, truth, evidence, crushingly
> overwhelming expert consensus, etc, etc, etc... they just DO NOT CARE
> that they're wrong. It's an infantile regression, one that could only
> ever have happened in a society where the stakes have been made to
> seem not all that important (again, purely an illusion).
> 
> I don't know. I'm rambling now. All this to say that, YES, the current
> crisis has personally affected me, right down to my dreams. Not really
> sure where I stand anymore.
> 
> Cheers;
> Yer Old Pal Jerky
> (YOPJ)
> 
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 6:31 AM Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> "Yes, sort of GERMAN, these episodes here. Well, these days Slothrop is
>> even dreaming in the language. Folks have been teaching him dialects,
>> Plattdeutsch for the zone the British plan to occupy, Thuringian if the
>> Russians happen not to drive as far as Nordhausen, where the central
>> rocket works is located."
>> 
>> Gravity's Rainbow, p. 240
>> 
>> Inspired by Beradt's book, the historian Reinhart Koselleck had a
>> research program running on human experiences of time in times of terror
>> & the methodological consequences for history science. Koselleck wasn't
>> able to finish the overall project but there's an essay from the 1970s
>> where his basic considerations can be found:
>> 
>> Reinhart Koselleck: Terror und Traum. Methodologische Anmerkungen zu
>> Zeiterfahrungen im Dritten Reich. Pp. 278-299 in R.K.: Vergangene
>> Zukunft. Zur Semantik historischer Zeiten. Frankfurt a.M. 1979: Suhrkamp.
>> 
>> The essay collection - "Future's Past: On the Semantics of Historical
>> Time"  (NY 2004: Columbia University Press) - is available in English.
>> Here comes the pdf:
>> 
>> https://www.academia.edu/33539151/Futures_Past_On_the_Semantics_of_Historical_Time_-_Reinhart_Koselleck_2014_1985_
>> 
>> The essay "Terror and Dream. Methodological remarks on the experience of
>> Time during the Third Reich" can be found on pages 205-221.
>> 
>> "Traumdarstellungen aus den Konzentrationslagern eröffnen uns einen
>> Bereich, wo der menschliche Verstand zu versagen scheint, wo seine
>> Sprache verstummt. Die konzentrationären Träume zeichnen sich durch
>> einen rapiden Verlust an Wirklichkeit aus, während Wachträume
>> proportional dazu zunehmen. Damit werden wir in einen Bereich gestoßen,
>> in dem offenbar die schriftsprachliche Quellenlage unzureichend wird, um
>> überhaupt begreifen zu lernen, was der Fall war. Wir werden auf die
>> Metaphorik der Träume verwiesen, um sehen zu lernen, was wirklich geschah."
>> 
>> (pp. 288-289, here quoted after the fourth paperback edition from the
>> year 2000)
>> 
>> 
>> Am 08.11.19 um 08:06 schrieb Mark Kohut:
>>> https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/1192490281687568384?s=20
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L:https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> .
>>> 
>> 
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