In general terms

Mon Oct 28 05:55:56 UTC 2019

Just to review, this was about an incident...
In Syria,
Where someone gassed some people,

Heinous barbarous butchery, no argument there from me

And the issue is who did it and what to do with that info?

A-and if it was somebody that was gonna be a reason to bomb someone?

And someone said hey wait, it might not be who you think?

And there was this nifty pic of an undamaged chlorine cylinder.

My first impulse is for anybody standing against bomb happy bomby McBombPants who will bomb anybody anywhere for any reason, and the people that make money off it.

But.....

Bellingcat also rang in on this, though, https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2019/03/01/the-opcw-ffms-report-on-the-april-7th-2018-douma-chemical-attack-versus-the-open-source-evidence/

with another nifty bunch of pics and some (for me) less-convincing (than the pics) computer simulations of damage to the area where the cylinder lay and the roof above and the cylinder itself, and 47 8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows, & jeez Louise it really really looks like it fell through some metal on its way to its resting place so now I know a little more but still not much.

There was a prof at some school I attended with a poster on his door that read, “Because you have silenced a person you have not convinced him.”

Always thought that sentence unwieldy! 
How about, Just because...etc
Or, Because you have silenced a person doesn’t necessarily mean you have...etc

That said, Wikileaks doesn’t have the same cachet that it used to.

Then again - 

Excising dissenting opinions from a report when the charter for the reporting agency grants the right to put them in doesn’t look good. 

Although there’s probably some Pointsman type who has final edit.

In a geography class I’m auditing to assuage and ameliorate my ignorance, I recently learned the term “civil-society actor.”

The impulse to learn more and seek solutions animates these folk. That’s the sector the p-list belongs in, imho.

That said, in a brave factfinding mission like Rudy Giuliani in Spain, I girded my loins and visited https://www.rt.com/news/470395-khan-sheikhoun-postol-bellingcat/

Which now allows me to detail some of the objections *they* cite.
The dead goat with a rope around its neck and possible drag marks near a hole in the ground which was either an impact crater but looked to some like a missile crater. Apparently a different cylinder than the one on the balcony.

Moment of silence for the victims.

And then they quote Sy Hersh, who still does carry some cachet with me. He thinks - and may even have sources - that poison gas may have been released when a building was damaged. Thinking back on Union Carbide in Bhopal, can I rule it out? Not automatically.

So the different parties are citing different facts and not responding point for point to the opposing points.

These would be interesting things to talk about with civil-society actors.
I picture this cerebral symposium where facts emerge in an atmosphere of mutual respect.
That’s the p-list, actually.
I mean, none of us is going to unleash 59 missiles on Syria, are we? Like that couldn’t have used a little more discussion before doing it!

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
To: Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
Cc: pynchon -l <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Subject: Re: NP - Matt Tabbi
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2019 18:58:36 -0400

C’mon jochen You have taught me to read better than this. 

“are you a friend of Bolton’s too? “....answer joke. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2019, at 6:30 PM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Where do you see ad hominem slurs? 
> 
>> Am So., 27. Okt. 2019 um 22:48 Uhr schrieb David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>:
>> When leftists agree with Breitbart, we must agree that something is really
>> wrong in our conversation.
>> 
>> David Morris
>> 
>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 2:40 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > Reduced to ad hominem slurs. Sad.
>> >
>> > Shows me I struck the vein where truth serum goes.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> > On Oct 27, 2019, at 3:27 PM, Thomas Eckhardt <thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >> it takes so long for Truth to be seen clear and distinctly.
>> > >
>> > > "Who claims Truth, Truth abandons. History is hir'd, or coerc'd, only in
>> > Interests that must ever prove base."
>> > >
>> > >> I don't give two bits worth to some political Ambassador over the UN
>> > procedures.
>> > >> And the scientific method.
>> > >
>> > > Fascinating. Are you a friend of Bolton's? Have you even read what I
>> > wrote? Followed one of the links?
>> > >
>> > > The OPCW whistleblowers are risking their livelihood *for* the
>> > scientific method and against warmongers of all political persuasions --
>> > who, in the immortal words of the Downing Street memo, want to fix the
>> > facts around the policy.
>> > >
>> > >> The doubters will never end---see History.
>> > >
>> > > Indeed. See my first name.
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
--
Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l

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