Astrology

Sun Aug 2 20:37:37 UTC 2020

Somehow, and this will seem like a self-justifying cop-out but I agree with
what you say and I see it as
your better statement of what I wanted to mean.....

Anyway, I have recently reread Oedipus and some commentary from Greek
scholars
and an American historian because of the class i am teaching on *The Human
Stain*....

Best line from the classicist (related to conceptions of time): For the
Greeks, Oedipus was "timeless" because they saw
the action as "always true" of Oedius. (Since college I have felt Oedipus
at Colonus to be the more horrible play.)

Bit of Americana: the earliest productions of Oedipus in America in the
1800's, by the best troupes, failed.
No traction, unlike Shakespeare say. This historian, aware of records sez:
Americans, willing themselves into being (my paraphrase),
that frontier always ahead as the clock ticks, could not like the
determinism as theme at all.

And Seneca was a bestseller I know from publishing history and as that
scholar says, Seneca was on the cusp of the change from
timelessness to caught in time. like Americans.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 3:10 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don’t think there is a moving between fate and free will, whether we
> believe or not.  Most people believe in free will, even if born into severe
> disadvantage.  Believing in fate is called fatalism.  Did Oedipus have a
> choice, even if forewarned?  We act as we will either way.
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 6:36 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes. Let me ask if this 'reading' of mine  re your use  in that line is
>> acceptable. (Gary's is another mountain to climb and fal back down)
>>
>> We humans will forever move between Fate & Free will.....believing in or
>> not, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 6:56 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. But Sisyphus is about eternal burden.  What everyone must bear upon
>>> birth, our inescapable being until death’s release.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 4:10 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That last line wins the day!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Aug 1, 2020, at 7:49 PM, gary webb <gwebb8686 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, Sisyphus... the eternal recurrence phenomena, is this the true
>>>> way of
>>>> > the world? Was the lama right, is it all an illusion? the samsara, or
>>>> > whatever you call it, i don't know...we do live in a vapid age, the
>>>> kind
>>>> > where Maxine goes to her Buddhist psychologist, Buddhist by way of
>>>> > California btw, to talk about the Brady Bunch. The illusions are
>>>> powerful
>>>> > these days, a metric called virality, that can simultaneously coexist
>>>> in
>>>> > both the digital and biological worlds, and the madman's final
>>>> > question...did we make them or did they make us? Then there's that
>>>> paranoia
>>>> > added into the equation too, the hidden variable buried deep in the
>>>> > equation, or the dungeon rather, like why are the days of the week
>>>> named
>>>> > after Teutonic pagan gods? A-and like, the days of the week in French
>>>> are
>>>> > named after celestial bodies, seem to anyone like one of those
>>>> > Conspiracies, the ones that we'd choose to ignore... An ancient cult
>>>> of
>>>> > Babylon...
>>>> >
>>>> > Maybe, there is just the eternal Will, the Will of Schopenhauer...
>>>> and that
>>>> > once the veil of illusion is removed you see the true face of it, the
>>>> death
>>>> > cults of Kali, then the path to Nirvana awaits to the true initiate,
>>>> and it
>>>> > is only through art that it is possible to transcend to the immaculate
>>>> > cosmic forms of Plato, or descend the stairs in final madness, or to
>>>> be
>>>> > reincarnated as an alchemist, whose suddenly discovered *Livre des
>>>> figures
>>>> > hieroglyphiques* by Flamel... the one who has finally summoned the
>>>> > Godhead...
>>>> >
>>>> > Maybe one day we primates will understand the phallacy (Priapism (
>>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priapus) anyone?) fallacy of our
>>>> > logocentrism... or the drugs will finally just wear off...
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 6:41 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> So much fun!  Do our stars rule us?  Isn’t this a question about
>>>> Fate,
>>>> >> and/or Free Will?  This is both an individual and a collective
>>>> question.
>>>> >> Maybe also about Sisyphus.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=sisyphus&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS777US778&oq=sysi&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.5813j0j4&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=C_7hiDNrby23MM
>>>> >>
>>>> >> David Morris
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 4:10 PM Keith McMullen via Pynchon-l <
>>>> >> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> “Oh, don’t I remember those, Lens-brother,— ’tis our Burden. Kepler
>>>> said
>>>> >>> that Astrology is Astronomy’s wanton little sister, who goes out and
>>>> >> sells
>>>> >>> herself that Astronomy may keep her Virtue,— surely we have all
>>>> done the
>>>> >>> Covent Garden turn. As to the older Sister, how many Steps may she
>>>> >> herself
>>>> >>> indeed already have taken into Compromise? for,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Be the Instrument brazen, or be it Fleshen, [Maskelyne sings, in a
>>>> >>> competent Tenor]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Star-Gazing’s ever a Whore’s profession,— (Isn’t it?)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Some in a Palace, all Marble and Brick,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Some behind Hedges for less than a kick, tell me
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> What’s it matter, The Stars will say, We’ve been ga-zing, back at
>>>> ye,
>>>> >> Many
>>>> >>> a Day,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> And there’s nothing we haven’t seen
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> More than one way,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Sing Deny o deny o day . . . [Recitative]
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:43 PM, gary webb <gwebb8686 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Reading C.V. Wedgwood's Thirty Years War, and came across this
>>>> line
>>>> >>> which
>>>> >>>> Pynchon mentions in Mason & Dixon, the part where Maskelyne and
>>>> Mason
>>>> >> are
>>>> >>>> casting each other's horoscope
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> "A pseudo-scientific interest in Astrology was the fashion. Kepler
>>>> >>> himself,
>>>> >>>> half humorously, half indignantly, averred that the astronomer
>>>> could
>>>> >> only
>>>> >>>> support himself by ministering to the follies of astronomy's "silly
>>>> >>> little
>>>> >>>> daughter, astrology""
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> >>
>>>> > --
>>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>