Not P but Andy, and was in Drafts when I thought I had sent it.

[Mark Kohut]

O, Yeah, agree. That is part of the kind of influence Gaddis' novel had, I
would offer..,,the group that were
the abstract impressionists and their hangers-on famously hung out
together in NYC....at places like White Horse Tavern
and, esp, Cedar Tavern.

In fact, Promoted by your observation and now remembering The Whole Sick
Crew early in V, there is some 'art talk', not noticeable much elsewhere in
the novel, right?....and
in another of what may be Pynchon's Shakespearean genius.....that art talk
is kinda ABSTRACT, no?

   1.
   2. Cedar Tavern | Art Nerd New York
   <http://art-nerd.com/newyork/cedar-tavern/>
   art-nerd.com/newyork/cedar-tavern

   Jul 31, 2013 · Cedar Tavern was a booze-fueled Abstract Expressionist
   think tank. The bar, which had its third location at 24 University Place,
   was frequented by all the New York School-ers- Jackson Pollock, Willem de
   Kooning, Mark Rothko, Franz Kline and beat writers like Allen Ginsberg and
   Jack Kerouac.


   PS. ThroughTina Fredericks, Warhol's first commercial client, the Ex of
   an art/business hustler, Emile De Antonio, who seems to surely be one of
   those Gaddis satirizes in *The Recognitions, *the guy who "was my first
   big break" said Andy, which is one of Andy's remarks Hopkins believes is
   true, Andy did get to meet some of that circle in the late 50s. He didn't
   hang out much of anywhere but his studios so........


   Tidbit, Tina got Andy the gig of designing a set of titles for the
film *Pull
   My Daisy,* but " he produced something so deliberately cruddy that they
   were taken off the film almost at once.:"
   3.



On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 9:12 AM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> OK.  But I think it's plausible that Pynchon's Whole Sick Crew was modeled
> after Gaddis's.
>
> On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 5:19 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah. Your timing is off. The Recognitions was published in 1955, written
>> over a decently long say-it-all-in-one-great book time for Gaddis
>>
>> Andy was still doing Tiffany windows in 1961, still a 'commercial'
>> artist making it in NYC. 60-61 were good years, 60 better. He bought a house
>> uptown.
>>
>> The art that was Gaddis' target was Abstract Expressionism, the emphasis
>> on abstract. An art movement that ignored
>> human recognition for the sake of art for art's sake. Color, form,
>> patterns only, one might say, he might have said, and I'm sure a deeper
>> Gaddis reader will correct me if that isn't accurate enough.
>>
>> But more it is about the art critics who made that movement credible and
>> monetarily valuable. And the whole lesser circle that thrived
>> off their words, not being able to recognize art themselves anyway. I
>> think.
>>
>> Another meaning to the word, as I remember the novel, is that in the way
>> back time, Roman times in Gaddis's case, I think, we knew
>> ourselves clearly but the modern age had led us to lose that recognition.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 8:58 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Years ago I got about halfway thru The Recognitions.  It lost me in its
>>> depiction of its Pynchon-like whole sick crew. As such, I never dove deep
>>> into its questions about original Vs copied artwork.  Am I wrong to suspect
>>> Warhol was his target?
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 6:32 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/sarahw/status/1256726554748628992?s=20
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>