Great Thread on 5GW in Ukraine

Sat Oct 10 18:43:55 UTC 2020

Too funny -   when my daughter was in 2nd grade she looked up from her homework and asked me, “What does ‘civil’ mean?”   I started talking about politeness and so on.  She stopped me,  “No, Mom, I mean like Civil War.”   -  Oh -  um …  war between family, war between brothers?    -  lol 

Becky 

> On Oct 10, 2020, at 6:15 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Maybe we ought to talk about what "civil' means?
> 
> I have learned depth about the question which I like, from a philosopher, a
> woman of course, with her
> book MERE CIVILITY......among much else, she gave me great insight into
> Roger Willaims' Rhode Island,
> wherein he believed and let happen, passionate confrontational argument. He
> seemed to believe that
> keeping too much inside was worse fo the polity.
> 
> Despite the judgment from Jochen, which may have been the right one, I
> think I was just honest and balanced
> with Thomas last evening and this morning.
> 
> I still will not bother reading anything he says or sends on Ukraine
> or America. Life's too short and I can't 'understand' him one whit.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 7:08 AM matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>> Let's calm down. There is no denying the importance or complexity of the
>> situation in the Ukraine; and the fascistic element in Ukraine is not an
>> invention on Mr. Eckhardt's part.
>> 
>> However, the line "probably going to end up the defining event of the
>> century" is ... bold, to say the least. I mean it's only 2020, we have a
>> long way to go. The focus on Ukraine leaves out some other very important
>> and violently contentious areas. What about Kashmir? Or Nagorno- Karabakh.
>> A good measure of conceit is needed to make such proclamations.
>> 
>> Remember, this Fox News Intern is just trying to make his mark and get into
>> the conversion so that he can be part of the weave - positioning in order
>> to garner greater capital. Seems to be working because it is getting some
>> traction here.
>> 
>> I cherish this corner of the public sphere. let's keep it as civil as
>> possible otherwise we risk turning into a Reddit cliché.
>> 
>> Peace
>> mc otis
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 12:43 AM Thomas Eckhardt <
>> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Asshole or not, he is basically right about Ukraine. The decisive event,
>>> which may yet turn out to be the decisive event in the history not only
>>> of the 21st century but of the human species, was the massacre of both
>>> Berkut (Ukrainian special police) and protesters on 20 February 2014,
>>> which was committed not by Yanukovich's people but by paramilitary
>>> (mostly Nazi/Banderite) forces from the opposition's ranks and
>>> collaborators from abroad. It is uncontroversial but little known that
>>> Berkut police were killed and wounded by opposition snipers in the early
>>> morning hours of that day.
>>> 
>>> How do I know this, as the NYT and the WP, rightfully celebrated for
>>> their investigative reporting on WMD in Iraq, didn't mention any of it?
>>> 
>>> Georgians have confessed to participating in the shooting on Italian and
>>> Israeli TV; Canadian political scientist Ivan Katchanovski has published
>>> and regularly updated a peer-reviewed scientific study on the topic
>>> which has been presented at the Annual Meeting of the American Political
>>> Science Association in 2015; the BBC has reported that one of their
>>> correspondents was shot at from the Hotel Ukraina which was in the hand
>>> of the opposition's paramilitary units. A German television crew even
>>> entered and filmed a room in the Hotel Ukraina from which a paramilitary
>>> unit shot at protesters -- a video that was scrubbed from Youtube in a
>>> hurry, but Katchanovski has it.
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0rR2Fh1zWI (Italian Television,
>>> subtitles in English)
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1NFI6TBH0 (Italian Television,
>>> subtitles in English)
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJhJ6hks0Jg (BBC Newsnight)
>>> 
>>> https://www.facebook.com/ivan.katchanovski/videos/989716864391533/ (the
>>> video that the ZDF does not want you to see)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://gordonhahn.com/2016/03/09/the-real-snipers-massacre-ukraine-february-2014-updatedrevised-working-paper/
>>> (a good summary).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers'_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266855828_The_Snipers'_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine
>>> (Ivan Katchanovski's study)
>>> 
>>> The most important and most depressing aspect of this is the role of the
>>> Western establishment media. They were bad when Chomsky and Herman
>>> published "Manufacturing Consent". Ever since the Maidan protests, with
>>> regard to Russia, they are Der Stürmer.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Am 08.10.2020 um 22:25 schrieb Mark Thibodeau:
>>>> Why would you promote this asshole's Twitter account?
>>>> 
>>>> By the way, he isn't half as clever as he seems to think he is.
>>>> 
>>>> And also, he's an asshole.
>>>> 
>>>> YOPJerky
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 3:30 PM Gary Webb <gwebb8686 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Not overtly about Pynchon, but Pynchon is the writer to me who can
>> best
>>>>> describe a person’s brain undergoing intensive info-war...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> FOX News intern with three Phds (@realboyphysical) Tweeted:
>>>>> Thread on why the Ukraine 2014 Euromaidan Revolution is probably going
>>> to
>>>>> end up the defining event of the century https://t.co/HHQpMPhocE
>>>>> https://twitter.com/realboyphysical/status/1313302248919896067?s=20
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> 
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> 
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> 
> --
> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l