Taibbi on Humbert (Sort of) TK Newsletter

Tue Aug 10 16:17:21 UTC 2021

Matt T was certainly right about how it would take leveraged pressure, not
any moral decision to get rid of him as Governor...

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 12:13 PM Allan Balliett <allan.balliett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> SHIT! Cuomo resigned!
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 12:04 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I apologize then for the caps and will lower them.....I have mistakenly
> > often seen them as like italics not like
> > shouting but I'm a slow learner sometimes...
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 12:02 PM Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well said, Joseph. Mark, you do yourself a disservice by sprinkling
> CAPS
> > > around your post. No need to yell to make your points.
> > >
> > > As a New Yorker and long-time leather of Cuomo I can say that the
> > > harassment charges are but the icing on a monstrous layer cake composed
> > of
> > > corruption, political cynicism and narcissism. Why, indeed, are the
> > nursing
> > > home stats not the central issue? Taibbi at least is asking the right
> > > question.
> > >
> > > I also agree with Taibbi, though I hope it ain't so, that Cuomo may
> > refuse
> > > to resign in the hopes that his electoral opponents will be too
> > progressive
> > > for the powerbrokers, who will sheepishly return to the fold. Boy, I
> hope
> > > he resigns!
> > >
> > > As to Humbert, we don't have to like him to find him a compelling
> > > character. Ditto for  Norman Bates. But I'm glad that the initial
> > prurient
> > > response to Lolita has been tempered. I don't know whether Nabokov was
> > > complicit in marketing of the book that focused on Lolita-the-temptress
> > > rather than Humbert-the-child-rapist. But for people who hadn't read
> the
> > > book, the temptress trope was probably the main perception. My best
> guess
> > > is that the views of readers have remained consistent about Humbert.
> The
> > > main shift is in the perception of the book from non-readers.
> > >
> > > Laura
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 11:28 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > So you don’t like Taibbi, as you don’t like so many progressive
> voices
> > > who
> > > > fail to simplify the world to CNN morality and Democratic party lies.
> > Not
> > > > too surprising.
> > > >   Unfortunately as a writer with clear bias you are indulging straw
> man
> > > > logic, reading unexpressed thoughts into the words of the person
> being
> > > > verbally flogged. Taibbi DOES NOT  say or even imply, " that he
> > (Humbert)
> > > > is supposed to be a likeable narrator…” He says "How can I like
> Humbert
> > > > Humbert?". And he is saying this after many readings. This is not an
> > > > attempt by Taibbi at a literary critique or essay on Nabokov or
> Lolita.
> > > > Reflections on Lolita and Nabokov and  what makes an interesting
> > > character
> > > > are a personalized and internalized jumping-off point for a
> discussion
> > of
> > > > media morality and cancel culture and how we treat character issues.
> > > >   You don’t like Lolita but claim to revere Nabokov, I don’t like
> > either
> > > > and don’t feel required to do so to be literate. Taibbi does like the
> > > > writer and Lolita which is only one of Nabokov’s works that have a
> > > serious
> > > > fascination with sex with children. Lolita drew the fascination of
> the
> > > > american letters community as an inquiry into character, into
> maleness,
> > > > into manipulative games, and into language itself. It simultaneously
> > > drew a
> > > > huge crowd as something with the appearance of sophisticated
> eroticism,
> > > > thus  enlarging the interest of the literati, and also drawing in a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > the playboy crowd and young men and women who wanted to be in the
> know.
> > > I
> > > > would suggest part of Taibbi’s use of this work was to show both
> sides
> > of
> > > > the drawing power of sex: first,  as a common ground of public
> > > fascination,
> > > > and second as a common ground of moral debate and how that
> fascination
> > > has
> > > > become so central to public morality while the planet burns, nations
> > are
> > > > starved, the treasury is looted, and insanely immoral wars are
> > propagated
> > > > by the same media.
> > > >   To me the heart of the article is the moral comparison between the
> > > > questionable substance of the sex allegations against Cuomo versus
> the
> > > much
> > > > more devious and destructive isssue with Covid in nursing homes. He
> is
> > > not
> > > > negating  that groping and abusing power is behavior that cannot be
> > > > tolerated, but asking why are far more violent and destructive
> actions
> > so
> > > > easily tolerated?  Here he is talking about something in this weird
> > > > political culture that is substantive and  worth writing about. The
> > essay
> > > > was far more interesting  and nuanced than your petty attack.
> > > >   In the end I think you only succed in illustrating Taibbi’s point
> > about
> > > > the oversimplifications of cancel culture and skewed moral
> judgements.
> > > > "Poor Matt”? His career as a writer is impressive because he is funny
> > > > thoughtful and able to clarify complex realities. I doubt he
> qualifies
> > as
> > > > poor in any sense.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 10, 2021, at 5:05 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Taibbi is as wrong as he has been lately about almost everything.
> Why
> > > is
> > > > > worth a discussion but not by me today--or probably ever.
> > > > > TRUTH: .....Humbert's evil is FINALLY being seen by more and more,
> > not
> > > > what
> > > > > he writes......mention it
> > > > > in a room or zoom of women and good readers as I did in my film
> class
> > > > about
> > > > > a good movie influenced by Lolita (w the sexes reversed)
> .......read
> > > the
> > > > > early intellectuals who wrote of *Lolita* as *a love story*, even
> in
> > > *The
> > > > > New Yorker.*.......Read the next generation of critical responses,
> > such
> > > > as
> > > > > by the real good Michael Wood, who argues that the crucial scene
> > where
> > > > > Humbert realizes he's a monster doesn't fully work. ......I will
> > refute
> > > > > narcissitically as well. In my first reading, college, a freshman,
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > for a course, I had serious trouble liking Humbert from the
> > get-go--she
> > > > is
> > > > > twelve!---thinking then as stupidly as Taibbi still thinks that he
> is
> > > > > supposed to be a likeable narrator....
> > > > >
> > > > > MT: "No story can survive an unlikeable narrator" ---has he not
> read
> > > > enough
> > > > > great literature or is he just naively stupid? *Journey to the End
> of
> > > > > Night, Cabot Wright Begins, American Psycho, Houllebecq and
> > > > more....*C'mon,
> > > > > why do we give Taibbi a pass with this stupidity? Because he once
> > > pointed
> > > > > out the real unsaid
> > > > > in our world? ........Superficial literary twitter of common
> readers
> > is
> > > > > full of folks saying, about almost any book...."I didn't like the
> > > > > character(s)".....so, it was a bad book or not worth
> > > > finishing......That's
> > > > > Matt's base of judgment it seems....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "With Cuomo as with anyone else in the Internet age, the important
> > > issue
> > > > > isn’t right or wrong, but whether or not he’ll survive."
> > > > > Wrong, wrong. See everyone, every almost every woman reacting in
> real
> > > > > time......They are all over my twitter....
> > > > > 2 aides resigning with only their own pressure.....(to answer
> another
> > > > > overgeneralization of Taibbi's)
> > > > >
> > > > > AND don't get me started on another writer failing of so many who
> > > > criticize
> > > > > social media in his way---with generalizations based on THEIR
> social
> > > > > media.....
> > > > > In its very being, twitter is what you make it; how you curate
> > > it....all
> > > > > these "twitter takes; twitter says"  are simply wrong (unless he's
> > > going
> > > > to
> > > > > get TOTAL analytics which are still almost impossible to obtain
> WITH
> > > THE
> > > > > POSITIONS in the tweets known. I. E.. the nature of positive or
> > > negative
> > > > > responses need measured by their content. )....Everyone's twitter;
> > > > > everyone's Facebook is unique and is curated by one's notions of
> what
> > > one
> > > > > wants to see/hear)
> > > > >
> > > > > More bullshit from Taibbi:
> > > > > "Morality in this sense has become a pass/fail exercise, with
> > everyone
> > > > > divided into just two categories, viable and disgraced. Which of
> the
> > > two
> > > > > one lands in depends entirely on how high levels of public disgust
> > and
> > > > > emotion reach at the peak of viral mania, versus how entrenched the
> > > > target
> > > > > is or isn’t. "
> > > > > Let's see, like General Kelley?..... Steve Bannon?....Sen Frankel?,
> > who
> > > > > bowed out of the Senate for the good of the party, he said....The
> > Dixie
> > > > > Chicks....lots of others.....
> > > > > his line blots out ANY acting on a principled morality, so damn
> > > > > self-justifyingly cynical; so loaded since, of course, almost every
> > > > famous
> > > > > person will fight to keep their fame/power/fortune...I say this is
> > > hardly
> > > > > the "morality' of most people in this world, this country, of
> course,
> > > but
> > > > > he isn't talking about them,  just generalizing falsely for his
> paid
> > > > > articles...
> > > > > Belated thought: look at his "relative" Glenn Greenwald, fully
> > > disgraced
> > > > > and still viable to refute his two simple-minded categories from
> > > another
> > > > > direction
> > > > >
> > > > > MT" It’s a quirk of literature that readers will cheer the Acapulco
> > > > > polysyllable dives of a child rapist but find the same style
> pompous
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > diary of an inoffensive emigre professor."... ....MORE WRONGNESS:
> > > > Humbert's
> > > > > pompousness is raised to the level of pedophilia self-deception
> while
> > > > > Pnin's is simply a way of living and being seen. H's charming
> > > pompousness
> > > > > is part of the meaning; Pnin's charmlessness is part of his.
> > > > >
> > > > > MT "Nabokov, who famously despised the “literature of social
> intent,”
> > > > might
> > > > > have puzzled at the effectiveness of Humbert as a narrator but
> surely
> > > > > didn’t worry about it."
> > > > > MK: Where does he come off with this? Where is the allusion from
> N's
> > > life
> > > > > or writing  to support this arrogant attempt to read N's baroque
> > mind?
> > > > The
> > > > > mind of a hardly predictable genius?.."might have puzzled
> > > at"......Yeah,
> > > > > wrong....my understanding of Nabokov, the man who created and
> solved
> > > > chess
> > > > > puzzles and writing puzzles, is that the usual meaning of "might
> have
> > > > > puzzled at" has no traction....he worked without real worry about
> > > getting
> > > > > his words, characterizations, right not, not NOT
> > > > > "puzzling [as if he wasn't sure; he who said in response to E. M.
> > > > Forster's
> > > > > remark that sometimes his characters took on a life of their own,
> > NEVER
> > > > > his....they are like galley slaves rowing as I want them
> > > to...[paraphrase
> > > > > but the metaphor is exact]....
> > > > >
> > > > > Poor Matt......who has lost his whole subject matter and has never
> > > gotten
> > > > > literature, it is obvious....
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 9:59 AM Allan Balliett <
> > > allan.balliett at gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://taibbi.substack.com/p/tk-newsletter-on-good-people-and?r=2pty3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=email
> > > > >> --
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> > > > >>
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