BEg2 Chap 8: Adam Bombs! Eve of Destruction

Tue Dec 14 02:51:52 UTC 2021

At long last, something I believe most of us can agree with.

J

On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 9:01 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> I was clearly being too literal. I officially rescind my statement about
> dead bodies. What I really meant was that you seem to all to frequently
> support US regime change operations. As far as I can tell these have
> produced nothing positive  and many dead bodies. I think every US war since
> vietnam was immoral and wrong. In the large picture I too am neutral on
> dead bodies since it does make room for live bodies and keeps the
> evolutionary ball rolling. Perhaps it is time to move away from the
> politics of dead bodies and get back to pynchon and BE, since that is the
> basis of ths list serve.
>
> > On Dec 13, 2021, at 6:25 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Just confirming Quail's doubts about me "loving dead bodies", whether
> past,
> > present or future.
> >
> > I do not love dead bodies. Don't even LIKE them, really. In fact,
> > considering every living body will eventually become a dead one, I'd have
> > to say I'm neutral towards dead bodies by necessity.
> >
> > As for all the various processes that CREATE surplus dead bodies, THAT is
> > where things get complicated.
> >
> > Jerky
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 6:03 PM Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I understand that you didn't think I said it. But because you quoted
> *my*
> >> post, and started with "But I thought..." Well, that's pretty standard
> >> sarcasm there, and it certainly seemed you were conflating my post with
> >> Mark's, or at the very least, challenging me to publicly disagree with
> >> Mark. The "I'm getting confused here" part also contributed to the
> >> sarcastic tenor of the reply. And if you were attempting to be tongue
> and
> >> cheek, it was certainly undermined by your last post, which accused
> Mark:
> >> "he seems to like dead bodies." I doubt Mark likes dead bodies, and I
> >> suspect you don't really believe that, either.
> >>
> >> I am genuinely not trying to pile on, start an argument, or rile you
> up. I
> >> appreciate your insightful comments, your hard work interpreting
> Pynchon,
> >> and your willingness to discuss any topic. I have been thoroughly
> enjoying
> >> the BE group read, and I recognize your part in keeping things on-track.
> >> But I do occasionally feel your tone is sometimes more argumentative
> than
> >> it needs to be, particularly when your interlocutor is not attacking you
> >> personally. (I am not talking about your beef with David or Mark K.
> here,
> >> either.)
> >>
> >> Thanks, and I hope I am clear. I feel that I've said my piece, and I
> have
> >> no ill feelings. I look forward to discussing Chapter 9.
> >>
> >> —Quail
> >>
> >> PS: We do actually disagree on this, though: nuclear annihilation can
> >> definitely be funny—"Dr. Strangelove" comes to mind, as does the Fallout
> >> video game franchise. And—you don't think "Duck and Cover" is
> hysterical?
> >>
> >> On 12/13/21, 5:34 PM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>    I did not accuse you of this idea that humans are evil. I ascribed
> >> that notion to MT because he actually said it. ( from M T -"In fact, far
> >> from an evil, I suspect that the wiping out of our all-devouring species
> >> could easily be seen and argued as a GOOD for the planet.")  .
> >>      So Allen.  I Understand perfectly well what you said and  agree. I
> >> was attempting tongue in cheek ala Colbert with a twist of anarchy.  As
> to
> >> what Thibodeau means, ??? I only know what he says. He seems to like
> dead
> >> bodies , the more the better, whether  in Syria or the glowing  future.
> The
> >> part of me that agrees is a rogue and a fake, a liar with a twisted
> sense
> >> of humor. Try re-reading my thibadeu posts and you will understand.
> >>      I was trying to be funny about something that isn’t funny. There
> >> just aren’t that many good jokes about nuclear or ecological
> annihilation.
> >> I guess there’s a reason for that.
> >>
> >>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey now! I never said humans were all evil sinners, etc. True, while
> >> sometimes I feel exactly like that—what monsieur Thibodeau said—I
> usually
> >> recognize that kind of nihilism in myself for what it is, and I try to
> >> shake it off and remember puppies, and tacos, and that Rush is the
> greatest
> >> band ever. So no, I don't want the world purged in fire, and I don't
> think
> >> Mark really does, either, or he'd be on a Michel Houellebecq or Thomas
> >> Ligotti list! (Not that there's anything wrong with that! I admire both
> >> writers.)
> >>>
> >>> So I'm not sure why you are confused? Mark and I had similar, but
> >> different opinions on your post. And I think I was being polite? While I
> >> have disagreed with you on a few things, I believe I have been civil.
> And
> >> even then, it's not like I vehemently disagree with you here: "OH NO!
> Let's
> >> destroy the earth, that would be grand!" I'm just saying that even if we
> >> did nuke the earth, my glowing ghost would be sadder at the loss and
> >> failure of humanity than all the other extinct creatures; creatures
> that'll
> >> get replaced, like they have countless times in the past, every time
> Gaia
> >> rolled over in her sleep. Nor do I see what my post had to do with
> America,
> >> first, last, or middle. I'm not attacking you, Joe. I like America a
> lot,
> >> but she's an abusive partner and really needs constant therapy.
> >>>
> >>> Or *is* this Chinatown? Am I gonna get my beak slashed, walk around
> >> all movie with a Band-Aid?
> >>>
> >>> —Quail
> >>>
> >>> On 12/13/21, 4:01 PM, "Pynchon-l on behalf of Joseph Tracy" <
> >> pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org on behalf of brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   But I thought all humans were evil sinners  and the universe
> >> would be better off without us. So you think Thibodeau got that wrong?
> I’m
> >> getting confused here. I don’t even know what we’re weighing against
> what.
> >> And who is going to hold the scale? There’s a lot of biomass involved.
> >> Here I am trying to renounce my foolish and inauthentic America Last
> >> position for a  more patriotic and semi- sincere, though I sometimes
> can’t
> >> tell, America First stance and I am getting corrective remonstrance from
> >> both ends. Look, I only have one tongue and 2 cheeks; I’ m doing the
> best I
> >> can.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 3:23 PM, Allen Ruch <quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The part of me that's actually a chemist and former astronomy
> >> teacher has to weigh in here:
> >>>>
> >>>> "The planet and green stuff and animals and shit" is the last thing
> >> I’d worry about regarding nuclear bombs. Nature is SO MUCH MORE
> >> catastrophic than humans. Think about the asteroid that whacked the
> >> dinosaurs. Or long before that, the "Great Dying," in which rising CO2
> >> levels possibly caused by volcanic eruptions caused mass extinctions the
> >> likes of which stagger the imagination. And there were many other
> "smaller"
> >> extinction events. The universe can behave like a hostile, indifferent
> >> place, and old Mother Nature has gobbled down her children wholesale on
> >> countless occasions. Hell, the very oxygen we breathe now was DEADLY
> POISON
> >> to much early life on earth: wiped 'em out of existence without
> blinking an
> >> eye. (Or a pair of Os.) And I have some news for you re: 5 billion years
> >> from now...
> >>>>
> >>>> So yeah, it's the destruction of humans I worry about more. Mother
> >> Nature will always cook up more animals and green stuff, but I don't
> want
> >> to be replaced by crab people. (And this isn't to argue with you, Joe—I
> >> know you also care about human life! I'm just putting it into
> perspective.)
> >>>>
> >>>> —Quail
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: On a related note—indifferent, hostile universe and all—thank
> >> you for the Lovecraft/Pynchon paper!
> >>>>
> >>>> On 12/13/21, 2:30 PM, "Pynchon-l on behalf of Joseph Tracy" <
> >> pynchon-l-bounces at waste.org on behalf of brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  Some people , especially those america lasters are probably just
> >> not getting those subtle dstinctions of anglo colonialism.
> >>>>    The BOMB. Only destructive. Not really evil at all. Sheeesh why
> >> didn’t I think of that. Just a planet with green stuff and animals and
> >> shit. Imean I’mgoing to die, … maybe, so why shouldn’t billions of
> years of
> >> evolution be burnt to a crisp to keep America First. Damn fuckin
> straight.
> >> Don’t you love straw men? I do. Just a match, a quick breath  and
> whooosh.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 13, 2021, at 1:25 PM, Mark Thibodeau <
> >> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jeez-whiz, and it's not just China!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd give this list's cohort of America Lasters some homework re:
> >> the
> >>>>> Empire *Upon
> >>>>> Which the Sun Never Set (among others) throughout the *19th
> >> century and
> >>>>> beyond, out both ends, from slave ship to cotton field to diamond
> >> mine to
> >>>>> the killing fields of drug war and strategic famine and applied
> >> racial
> >>>>> "science" to etc, etc, etc, before they spend another moment in
> >> that state
> >>>>> of blessed easy leftish innocence that sees the USA as the be all
> >> and end
> >>>>> all of EVILE in world history...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With the caveat that they DID (in many ways) produce The BOMB,
> >> which is the
> >>>>> point upon which our species' ending may ultimately pivot, some
> >> day soon.
> >>>>> But I would argue that, technically, while destructive, that's not
> >> really
> >>>>> "EVILE" per se... unless you see Imperial Japan and Fascist
> >> Germany as the
> >>>>> Good Guys.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 9:29 AM Allen Ruch <
> >> quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Joseph,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Heh—this ain't my first rodeo, pardner! I wasn't taught debate by
> >> Mr.
> >>>>>> Farkas just to fall for the ol' Motte-and-Baily trick! I tilted a
> >> humorous
> >>>>>> joust towards your bailey: "The Bill or Rights was suspended,"
> >> not some
> >>>>>> indefensible motte: "Extradition and torture don't matter." Of
> >> course I
> >>>>>> believe that Western rights can be, and have been, infringed,
> >> subverted,
> >>>>>> and perverted, and of course I believe torture matters. I was
> >> teasing you
> >>>>>> about your hyperbole, the same I would expect someone to do if I
> >> said
> >>>>>> something like "Rush is the greatest band ever." Just with less,
> >> you know,
> >>>>>> moral high ground? And also, if you genuinely believe that China
> >> needed the
> >>>>>> United States to develop a surveillance state dedicated to
> >> controlling its
> >>>>>> citizens, I urge you to read about Imperial China long before the
> >> Canton
> >>>>>> system. It's pretty grim stuff. (The first Opium War is one of
> >> favorite
> >>>>>> historical subjects. It's like: "Oh, oh, oh, you are *all* so
> >> terrible!")
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But on to the heart of your post—thank you for clarifying your
> >> ideas. I
> >>>>>> understand you much better now, and I really appreciate your
> >> "layers"
> >>>>>> analogy. It offers a nice vocabulary to discuss Pynchon. For
> >> instance, I
> >>>>>> agree with you that the third, mythic later is detuned in
> >> "Bleeding Edge"
> >>>>>> compared to many of his other books. And there's some weird
> >> interplay
> >>>>>> between the second and third layers: the Naser? I mean....come
> >> on? Which
> >>>>>> creates a strange tension in the novel for me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For instance: I accept mechanical ducks in "Mason & Dixon," and
> >> Godzilla
> >>>>>> in "Vineland." I can even accept ghosts in "Bleeding Edge." But
> >> stiff like
> >>>>>> the Naser raises my eyebrows: if this is *real,* if the Naser and
> >> people
> >>>>>> fleeing from it are meant to be taken literally in the world of
> >> the book,
> >>>>>> how seriously are we meant to take the characters? It feels
> >> different than,
> >>>>>> say, "Against the Day," which clearly operates in a magical
> >> space. Or the
> >>>>>> time travel in "Bleeding Edge"—but I'm getting ahead of myself.
> >> I'll wait
> >>>>>> until those chapters to raise those questions. Some good stuff
> >> coming down
> >>>>>> the road in the novel, once you clear all these opening chapters.
> >> (Which I
> >>>>>> still enjoy.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And I just wanted to pull this quote out, because I really like
> >> it:
> >>>>>> "Whether Pynchon believes M&D’s line was really a colonial
> >> violation of
> >>>>>> telluric patterns or just a means of land theft, we know he has
> >> M&D wrestle
> >>>>>> with the ethical dimensions of what they are doing and uses
> >> supernatural
> >>>>>> stories to amplify such issues." <--yes! Well said.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Anyway, thanks for taking the time to clarify. And I would be
> >> interested
> >>>>>> in reading your essay, if you send it along!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> —Quail
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/11/21, 10:07 PM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> easier questions first- Pynchon readers seem less enthralled
> >> with BE
> >>>>>> as a whole, and I think this is part of why. We like the
> >> weirdness and the
> >>>>>> sublime quality of hanging out for a few days or weeks with Ball
> >> lightning,
> >>>>>> talking across that usually unbridgeable gap.  I think the
> >> confrontation
> >>>>>> with the abyss combined with 9-11 and ithe loss of privacy is also
> >>>>>> uncomfortably close to home. Throw in the weird scene and video
> >> with the
> >>>>>> shoulder fired missile, and who wants to think about it all. Look
> >> what it
> >>>>>> stirred up here.
> >>>>>> Abyss- all of the above with the full impact of all that we do
> >> not
> >>>>>> know.
> >>>>>> I don't think you could take things any more seriously than GR.
> >>>>>> China's system was born here, but they have caught up.
> >>>>>> The redcoats have not come to my house directly but they are
> >> turning
> >>>>>> over Julian for more torture and that matters.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Less supernatural as in missing the third layer that is in most
> >> of his
> >>>>>> novels. As you know, because the story, I’m fairly certain, came
> >> from your
> >>>>>> web page, Pynchon once compared his writing to one of those
> >> medical texts
> >>>>>> with overlappable transparent layers.  As a stained glass
> >> conservationist I
> >>>>>> sometimes have worked with Tiffany and Lafarge Windows with
> >> multiple layers
> >>>>>> and the whole idea has affected my own art and the way I look at
> >> TP and
> >>>>>> other fiction. I see 3 fundamental layers( I have an essay
> >> somewhere if you
> >>>>>> are interested)with the more direct comments of the author
> >> himself being a
> >>>>>> kind of 4th layer and the readers a 5th in the sense that like
> >> all writers
> >>>>>> he wants to connect. The base , or at least fundamental to the 3
> >> layers is
> >>>>>> history itself and Pynchon tries hard to make this accurate and
> >> full of
> >>>>>> timely details. My presumption here is not that history can be
> >> accurately
> >>>>>> told but that it actually happened and is a proper setting for
> >> writing
> >>>>>> about the  human experience and maybe some other shit too. The
> >> second layer
> >>>>>> I call the plausible fictive, but is also called realism
> >> naturalism or just
> >>>>>> fiction. This is the primary characters and their imagined lives
> >> along with
> >>>>>> fictional towns , bars, mayonnaise attacks etc..  Still pretty
> >> normal
> >>>>>> stuff. The third layer is the supernatural, which almost always
> >> has a
> >>>>>> mythic dimension. This is why I referred to Pugnax, the Chums,
> >> Thanatoids,
> >>>>>> etc. These could be dismissed as silly but fun storytelling
> >> devices but I
> >>>>>> think there is more to it. It adds a layer that has always been
> >> part of
> >>>>>> human consciousness and treats it as something perfectly normal
> >> with real
> >>>>>> effects on other layers. Whether Pynchon believes M&D’s line was
> >> really a
> >>>>>> colonial violation of telluric patterns or just a means of land
> >> theft, we
> >>>>>> know he has M&D wrestle with the ethical dimensions of what they
> >> are doing
> >>>>>> and uses supernatural stories to amplify such issues.
> >>>>>>    That was probably too big of an answer but this third
> >> supernatural
> >>>>>> layer is seriously reduced in BE and a more psychological
> >> approach takes a
> >>>>>> central role. I think it makes the writing  just a bit less
> >> lively, less
> >>>>>> fun,  and less multi-dimensional but Pynchon's other emphasis is
> >> on the
> >>>>>> role of computer tech and the web and I am suggesting that maybe
> >> this
> >>>>>> forfeiting of the supernatural and mythic weird comes from a
> >> sense that
> >>>>>> screens  is where we have turned our attention and that in doing
> >> so  we may
> >>>>>> well have forfeited a vital dimension.  Not only that but we have
> >> forfeited
> >>>>>> it to a logic system that  easily serves  as system controls for
> >> a ruling
> >>>>>> class that may be socipathic at a fundamental level, and also  a
> >> logic
> >>>>>> sytem that is not part of biological complexity, moral
> >> compassion, or real
> >>>>>> joy in living . I personally doubt that biology or physics  or
> >>>>>> consciousness is built up from binary logic. I like computers as
> >> a very
> >>>>>> powerful  tool, but like you and  Cassidy certain things or
> >> spaces or
> >>>>>> energy systems, movies, etc. feel as you said ’colonized’ and
> >> while I try
> >>>>>> to face my own shadow some things I just walk away from or dig
> >> into my
> >>>>>> internal love mantras and wait for some light.  Is there evil?
> >> Even with my
> >>>>>> inclination toward Taoism I can’t dismiss it as easily as I used
> >> to.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2021, at 7:17 PM, Allen Ruch <
> >> quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The suspension of the Bill of Rights was the worst—I was shocked
> >> to
> >>>>>> find I had to quarter Redcoats in my apartment! They really drank
> >> me out of
> >>>>>> house and home. Couldn't make a decent pot ocoffee to save their
> >> lives.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But kidding aside, while your post contains all the eloquence
> >> I've
> >>>>>> come to enjoy from your writing -- I'm a sucker for "chthonic" --
> >> I'm not
> >>>>>> sure I'm following a few of your points, which is likely my
> >> fault. Just to
> >>>>>> clarify: You feel the book is less supernatural because Pynchon
> >> is taking
> >>>>>> things more seriously, because he's dealing with recent events?
> >> Or because
> >>>>>> he feels modern people, or perhaps his characters, have lost
> >> touch with the
> >>>>>> mythic? And when you say the Deep Web (via DeepArcher) draws
> >> people "toward
> >>>>>> the abyss that is an inevitable part of the subconscious," do you
> >> mean
> >>>>>> loneliness? The self? Depression? Death? All of the above?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think I get what you are saying—perhaps in a Gurdjieff/Watts
> >> kind
> >>>>>> of way—but here's something about the Deep Web in Bleeding Edge
> >> that still
> >>>>>> feels more sinister to me than the Dark Night of the Soul, perhaps
> >>>>>> more—colonized? Or maybe this is just one of the Pynchon things
> >> I'll never
> >>>>>> really "get." (Yes, I admit, there are parts of "Against the Day"
> >> that
> >>>>>> still leaving me scratching my head.)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And finally, what do you mean by "What readers do with that is
> >>>>>> interesting. Pynchon fans seem distinctly less enthralled." Less
> >> enthralled
> >>>>>> with exploring darkness, or just less enthralled with BE as a
> >> whole?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyway, I certainly agree with you that our "planet wars" have
> >>>>>> claimed enough victims, and we should treasure human contact.
> >> Well said.
> >>>>>> (Though I reckon that China may be offended by your claiming that
> >> the US
> >>>>>> has the "largest civilian surveillance system ever imagined." You
> >> should
> >>>>>> really give them more credit, they're trying so hard!)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> —Quail
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 12/11/21, 6:02 PM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But I do have that question for everyone: how literal do you take
> >>>>>> Bleeding Edge?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Good question, especially because, as you point out, there is
> >>>>>> distinctly less intrusion of the supernatural or mythic weird
> >> than in any
> >>>>>> other Pynchon Novel: no talking ball lightning, no chasing
> >> harmonicas into
> >>>>>> the underworld, no Thanatoids, lovestruck mecahincal ducks,
> >> Pugnax, Vheissu
> >>>>>> etc.
> >>>>>>> I mean there is the cosmic bike messenger and in this very
> >>>>>> chapter a psychic bladder function, but these are, let’s face it,
> >> just not
> >>>>>> the same. Later there are ghosts but even those can be
> >> interpreted as
> >>>>>> psychological illusions or alternately insights.  It is as though
> >> the
> >>>>>> dreaded nuclear armed V2 had finally hit and the worst it could
> >> do was
> >>>>>> bring down towers and kill a few thousand more victims of the
> >> planet wars.
> >>>>>> Which by the time BE was being written had produced more planet
> >> wars and a
> >>>>>> hundred fold increase in innocent victims. Well innocent in that
> >> most
> >>>>>> people don’t actively drop bombs on other people and wouldn’t
> >> even donate
> >>>>>> to the bombers if the national bomb campaigns relied on volunteer
> >>>>>> donations.
> >>>>>>>   The human suffering is all too real too, and other realities
> >>>>>> have come with it: the sudden turn to patriot act paranoia, the
> >> drone wars,
> >>>>>> the suspension of the Bill of Rights and the institution of the
> >> largest
> >>>>>> civilian surveillance system ever imagined.
> >>>>>>>  Maybe TP  has brought his readers out of a world on which the
> >>>>>> people interact powerfully with the mythic because that is his
> >> sense of
> >>>>>> what is happening. I have the feeling he is not that thrilled
> >> with a world
> >>>>>> so severed, both from the mystical and from the multicultural,
> >> multivalent
> >>>>>> social hodgepodge that does not so easily lend itself to the
> >> manipulations
> >>>>>> of binary code and binary politics. Maxine is the most
> >> interactive human in
> >>>>>> P’s writings and what she is is the normal social experience of a
> >> great
> >>>>>> deal of human history. She gives us the big picture view that
> >> cyberspace
> >>>>>> promises but can’t deliver.  Everyone is different, looking for
> >> meaning,
> >>>>>> respect, everyone is struggling with the effects of social
> >> isolation and
> >>>>>> lack of power to stop a growing plutocracy, marital and family
> >> breakups,
> >>>>>> predators, bad habits.
> >>>>>>>   The deep web functions not so much like a balloon ride into
> >>>>>> new dimensions of understanding, or even a cthonic confrontation
> >> with the
> >>>>>> deep forces of history and myth like Slothrop’s toilet adventure.
> >> It draws
> >>>>>> people toward the abyss that is an inevitable part of the
> >> subconscious. It
> >>>>>> is lonely and we all must enter eventually.  What readers do with
> >> that is
> >>>>>> interesting. Pynchon fans seem distinctly less enthralled. I have
> >> mixed
> >>>>>> feelings. I been there plenty and the main result is I want to
> >> treasure
> >>>>>> every human contact.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 2021, at 4:04 PM, Allen Ruch <
> >> quail at shipwrecklibrary.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I liked Myst. I am a hardcore video game player, and I still
> >> love
> >>>>>> open worlds the best. Myst was a forerunner to so many great
> >> things, even
> >>>>>> stuff like GTA and Skyrim. Great game.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Which brings me to Cassidy. I keep re-reading that section, and
> >>>>>> even though I read "Bleeding Edge" when it first came out, maybe
> >> I just
> >>>>>> don't remember—what is there about the abyss in Deep Archer? It's
> >> often
> >>>>>> spoken of in mystical terms. I think Cassidy gives the first
> >> impression of
> >>>>>> that, beyond Maxine's initial "gee wow," that is. Cassidy remarks:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> “Hard to explain. It was all just coming from somewhere, for
> >> about
> >>>>>> a day and a half I felt I was duked in on forces outside my normal
> >>>>>> perimeter, you know? Not scared, just wanted to get it over with,
> >> wrote the
> >>>>>> file, did the Java, didn’t look at it again. Next thing I
> >> remember is one
> >>>>>> of them saying holy shit it’s the edge of the world”
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Pynchon loves supernatural spaces, and I think he's strongly
> >>>>>> suggesting that the Deep Web—or video games, or Myst, etc.—has
> >> the capacity
> >>>>>> to be an Other World. And not just Gibsonian cyberspace—or maybe
> >> it's just
> >>>>>> that after all?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Maybe because weird fiction/horror is my favorite genre, I'm
> >>>>>> fascinated with the intrusions of the supernatural—or if not the
> >>>>>> supernatural, then the sublime?—in "Bleeding Edge." I mean, it's
> >> one thing
> >>>>>> in M&D, AtD, etc., but this seems to be Pynchon's most
> >> "realistic," or
> >>>>>> perhaps "historical," book. Sure, there are some things that
> >> suggest an
> >>>>>> alternate, wackier universe—the Naser, proösmia, Maxine being ok
> >> with being
> >>>>>> a stripper—but then again, there's something even weirder going
> >> on, right?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Anyway, I won’t go into any future events just yet, I'll wait
> >> until
> >>>>>> we get there. But it's something to keep an eye on as the book
> >> develops.
> >>>>>> But I do have that question for everyone: how literal do you take
> >> Bleeding
> >>>>>> Edge?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> —Quail
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> PS: Sorry I know this post is all jumbled with ideas and not
> >>>>>> lucidly written, but I'm on my third Abelour.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  --
> >>>>  Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   --
> >>>   Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
> >>
> > --
> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>
>
>
>