BE group read: CH 2

[Mark Kohut]

Could be both but it is the latter......
Google's N--Gram showing the phrase kicking up solidly in books in English
starting
in 1963.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22late+capitalism%22&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%22%20late%20capitalism%20%22%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2C%22%20late%20capitalism%20%22%3B%2Cc0
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BONUS easter EGG: 1961 was a pretty good year for new fiction. (and he left
off V.) Catch-22 The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie Revolutionary Road Franny &
Zooey A House of Mr Biswas Solaris This Sweet Sickness The Fox in the Attic
Stranger in a Strange Land The Stainless Steel Rat A Severed Head

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 5:15 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> After going back to sleep but up at my usual time:
>
> I actually learned what I know, what little I know, about "late
> capitalism' from my earlier read, Group Read
> of BE....either Pynchon has used it only once before this book, as early
> as V---who has a Kindle for that?--
> or else it was around the time of V that the phrase "late capitalism'
> started appealing in them there rags
> a lot.....
>
> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 7:53 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m not following, just skimming a bit from some of these posts. But I
>> hope your discussion doesn’t get short-changed by your use of labels like
>> “postmodernism” and “late capitalism.”  Pointing to a text description of
>> *anything* as an example of one of those isms is just lazy and
>> self-defeating for a real discussion, even if it’s used as a term inside
>> the text.  TV isn’t just TV, if you catch my drift.  Links within the text
>> for deeper intent is a richer source IMHO.  Reference to outside text or TV
>> or current life is great, but only so far as the novel provides its take on
>> them (for the most part).  Authority is always a moving target.  Anyway,
>> that’s my 2 cents.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 7:02 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Uh, maybe, if that means the idea of bootlegging from the screen, but
>>> Seinfeld got it from NYC life....
>>> ....in the nineties at least, people were doing this and selling lots in
>>> the streets of New York and other cities.
>>> Openly enough on the streets of Jersey City where I lived when I wasn't
>>> in
>>> NYC, very smilingly perky attractive Chinese-American woman in my neck of
>>> JC....
>>>
>>> I also think TRP is satirizing academia and supposed film-makers as well.
>>> Reg is just doing commercial film, everything is now commercial in late
>>> capitalism.
>>> As well as satirizing postmodernism and its labels.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM David Elliott via Pynchon-l <
>>> pynchon-l at waste.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> >   pp. 8-9 in the PB on Reg as movie pirate - "... far ahead of the
>>> leading
>>> > edge of this postmodern art form" "with your neo-Brechtian subversion
>>> of
>>> > the diegesis."
>>> > Do you think Pynchon got the idea from the Seinfeld "Little Kicks"
>>> episode?
>>> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Kicks
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > |
>>> > |
>>> > |  |
>>> > The Little Kicks
>>> >
>>> > George tags along to a company party held by Elaine. He hits on Anna,
>>> one
>>> > of Elaine's employees, but she isn't i...
>>> >  |
>>> >
>>> >  |
>>> >
>>> >  |
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >     On Sunday, November 7, 2021, 03:21:53 PM EST, Joseph Tracy <
>>> > brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >  Edward Despard’s life is a fascinating bit of evidence that modern
>>> > ethical ideas about racial/ethnic justice are not as restricted to
>>> recent
>>> > times as some argue. His complaints about the Crown's financial abuse
>>> and
>>> > his administative attempt at racial justice in Honduras landed him in a
>>> > narrow prison and when a fellow officer visited him he looked in bad
>>> > shape.The parallels to Reg seem a bit extreme but the power and
>>> > ruthlessness of Ice&co soon become evident. This is the second time in
>>> > Pynchon’s novels that a person with a camera is on the frontlines of
>>> > ominous cultural changes, and since Vineland in the 80s the documentary
>>> > (and Docudrama) has become a major force of social critique, from
>>> Michael
>>> > Moore to Citizen 4, few things so authoritative as seeing an event,
>>> though
>>> > we have also learned that editing can be pretty misleading.  Reg is
>>> already
>>> > shaken by what he is seeing, perhaps more than makes obvious sense. He
>>> has
>>> > the documentarian’s sense that he needs confirmation, grounding, solid
>>> > evidence. But what this reader feels as an overall impression is fear,
>>> > which Maxine picks up as "One of those funny looks Maxine by now knows
>>> > better than to ignore. “
>>> >   The name Gabriel Ice amplifies this subtle note of fear,
>>> particularlly
>>> > for the Pynchon reader, with references to ATD’s  Vormance expedition
>>> to
>>> > Iceland and the Ice monster they release, but also Gabriel and the
>>> Trump-et
>>> > of apocalypse.  The comic prose style that P uses gives the reader a
>>> safe
>>> > distance from the drama. He is cluing us to what looks like some dark
>>> stuff
>>> > but he doesn’t want to manipulate our emotions. It’s like a vampire
>>> > appearing in the Simpsons, funny, silly but not necessarily empty of
>>> > meaning.
>>> >   “You’re suggesting what, mob, covert ops?” “According to Eric, a
>>> purpose
>>> > on earth written in code none of us can read. Except maybe for 666,
>>> which
>>> > tends to recur.” The use of 666, appearing only this once in the
>>> novel, and
>>> > kinda offhand, has some serious implications connected to a digital
>>> > powerhouse with connections to the government, or several governments.
>>> In
>>> > the book of the Revelation, which is admittedly a strange piece of
>>> work,
>>> > 666 has 2 meanings; it is connected to a figure called the beast or
>>> > 'anti-Christ’ and implicit in his ’name’, and it is a mark instituted
>>> by
>>> > the beast's rule, a number embedded in the body that allows the
>>> citizens to
>>> > buy or sell and restricting those who don’t have the mark from economic
>>> > transactions. This kind of system has been made dramatically more
>>> feasible
>>> > with digital technology and is not without proponents among the high
>>> tech
>>> > plutocrats. Some are nervous that the pandemiic and the idea of a
>>> digital
>>> > passport point in this direction. Not trying to say Pynchon sees this a
>>> > prophetic situation, but he is throwing out some pretty dark imagery
>>> around
>>> > Ice and the implicit growth of electronic surveillance and
>>> secretiveness
>>> > that got kicked into high gear after 9-11.
>>> >   I don’t like John of Patmos’ book at all, the cruel gloating as God
>>> > pours out his curses on an evil humanity does not appeal to me, but is
>>> > there some possibility that the altered state that allowed this vision
>>> > holds some inherent logic about the combination of economic and
>>> military
>>> > imperialism that reached an early height of power in the Roman empire?
>>> > Well, that is what is weird about ‘sacred texts’.  They look like
>>> > superstitious nonsense one period and like uncanny prescience the next.
>>> >  Pynchon works this territory with uncommon fearlessness and can’t
>>> easily
>>> > be reduced to a skilled hypertext game player for me. My own
>>> connection to
>>> > literature, to words, to images, is not without the quality of 'a
>>> purpose
>>> > on earth written in code none of us can read’ but all of us want to.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Bleeding edge Ch 2 summary
>>> > >
>>> > > at end of Ch 1 Reg Despard arrives at Maxine’s office and  is
>>> brought in
>>> > with warmth, affection
>>> > > and curious anticipation. “Do get your ass in here. Long time.”
>>> > > CH 2 BE
>>> > > Reg Despard’s name -  Reg by itself derives from latin for
>>> > ruler/king/queen The only historic Despard I found was Edward Despard (
>>> > 1751-18030 famous for contending for equal teatment of races, right to
>>> buy
>>> > land in Carribean, for marrying a black woman, for accusations of
>>> sedition
>>> > that, though unproved, bankrupted him and later for accusation and
>>> > conviction for  questionable plot to kill king George 3, for this he
>>> was
>>> > drawn and quartered long after that horrifying practice was in use. He
>>> was
>>> > a social reformer/revolutionary Influenced by Tom Paine.            Reg
>>> > Despard first met Maxine on a carribean cruise.
>>> > >
>>> > > Reg looks considerably hammered by interval of a couple years( this
>>> > would fit life of Edward Despard, but why hammered?). He is a video
>>> > documentarian who began as movie pirate making camcorder videos of
>>> first
>>> > run movies, duplicating and selling for a dollar or 2. He got drawn
>>> into
>>> > academic scene by professor who says he is on leading edge ”“with your
>>> > neo-Brechtian subversion of the diegesis.”  Soon he is shooting his own
>>> > pictures and has a business making documentaries. Maxine asks what he’s
>>> > there about and …
>>> > > “It’s this company I’ve been shooting a documentary about? I keep
>>> > running into . . .” One of those funny looks Maxine by now knows better
>>> > than to ignore.
>>> > > “Attitude.” “Access issues. Too much I’m not being told.”
>>> > > Reg thinks info is hidden in Deep Web, Maxi says maybe you want a
>>> > techie. He already has one named Eric Outfield.
>>> > > The firm who commissioned the documentary is called hashslingerz,
>>> does
>>> > computer security , reputed to be expanding , making big money….
>>> > >
>>> > > R “ I have this tiny advance the company’s kicking in, plus I’m
>>> allowed
>>> > total access, or so I thought till yesterday, which is when I figured
>>> I’d
>>> > better see you.” “Something in the accounting.” “Just like to know who
>>> I’m
>>> > working for. I haven’t sold my soul yet—“
>>> > >
>>> > > The firm is owned by Gabriel Ice, Maxi recalls  photo of boy
>>> billionaire
>>> > in white, makes Bill Gates look charismatic.
>>> > > “That’s only his party mask. He has deep resources.”
>>> > > “You’re suggesting what, mob, covert ops?” “According to Eric, a
>>> purpose
>>> > on earth written in code none of us can read. Except maybe for 666,
>>> which
>>> > tends to recur.
>>> > > Reg asks maxi if she still has concealed carry permit and if whole
>>> set
>>> > up is too paranoid.
>>> > > “Not me, paranoia’s the garlic in life’s kitchen, right, you can
>>> never
>>> > have too much.”
>>> > >
>>> > > In  the course of  a talk about pay Reg suggests she looks like  film
>>> > star Rachel Weisz.This leads into 5 pages of flashback to a budget
>>> cruise
>>> > Maxi went on at suggestion of her sex, cop, pop culture obsessed best
>>> > friend Heidi Czornak. The cruise was Heidi’s  attempt to break Maxine’s
>>> > post divorce depair which was causing her to drink too much and cry a
>>> lot.
>>> > The passengers are mostly from“AMBOPEDIA Frolix ’98,” a yearly
>>> gathering of
>>> > the American Borderline Personality Disorder Association.”
>>> > > She meets Reg on this cruise, continues to drink heavily, meets duck
>>> > stamp collectors and other amusing folk, gambles  and talks with Reg
>>> using
>>> > Jujubes under the influence of “Generic Undiagnosed James Bond
>>> Syndrome,
>>> > whole different support group.She meets Joel Weiner ( the real??? J
>>> Weiner
>>> > was  an unscrupulous real estate mogul indicted many times)
>>> Occasionally
>>> > forgets about Horst. This trip the budget cruise line is headed for
>>> > borderline of Haiti and Dominican Republic. Her and Reg start drinking
>>> > Mamajuana, a jar containing a vine soaked in rum and red wine with
>>> voodo
>>> > love spell. They find room in abandoned luxury hotel and misbehave on
>>> > moldering bed amidst vines and lizards.
>>> > >
>>> > > Back in novel’s real time Maxine asks Reg if they… He politely or
>>> memory
>>> > fogged by mamajuana says no. We find out somehow Weiner indirectly
>>> caused
>>> > Maxine's license to be revoked when she “cut him too much slack” not
>>> > following evidence of fraud and offering him some “tricks of the trade
>>> out
>>> > of “friendship”.
>>> > >  “Friendship?” Reg is puzzled. “You didn’t even like him.”
>>> > > M “A technical term.”
>>> > > We get more details of license removal, possibility of appeal which
>>> > Maxine does not pursue.  Not sure she wants to be  “the one
>>> incorruptible
>>> > still point in the whole jittery mess, the atomic clock everybody
>>> trusts.”
>>> > > …………………………………………………………….
>>> > >
>>> > > Hope that isn’t too long or too short for  a summary, but still lots
>>> of
>>> > room for details and questions raised.  Summaries help me see the
>>> acton as
>>> > a whole, since Pynchon writes so engagingly in the digressions.
>>> > >
>>> > > comic issues- Ambopedia, academic media criticism, duck stamps, James
>>> > Bond Syndrome, cheapo luxury cruises,
>>> > >
>>> > > serious issues- divorce; secretive powerful tech firm tagged
>>> > 666/Ice/apocalyptic angel Gabriel; deep web; real estate fraud abuse;
>>> fraud
>>> > investigation;  moral and job independence.
>>> > >
>>> > > comico-serious-why hashslingerz ?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> --
>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>
>>