Late Capitalism

[rich]

My annoyance with much of BE revolves around style and length--I think the
book would've been better at half the size without losing much. More
Windust would've balanced nicely with the book's overwhelming frippery. and
just personally, as a native NY'er I hate books purportedly about NYC that
only concern Manhattan,  but that's on me

rich

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:38 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Rich!---
>
> and you are not fond of BE after this so fine explication of part of the
> meaning?? The money chapters and whole damn
> plot...start-ups gambling and most----nothing tangible....not
> grounded........like the meaning of 'minus 1" in AtD....
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:24 PM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> who actually is innocent, though. Much of the 'system' is so much alchemy,
>> far removed from growth in the general sense. One big gambling den, rigged
>> by maths PhDs. we all sponge off the system, how else to survive. But for
>> many of us, we are enjoying our lives, hardly' just surviving'. The system
>> provides. But a system implies a geography, a building, something
>> tangible.
>> There isn't anything tangible about the system. Those who want to see it
>> die, overthrown, are deluded. Those who believe in the system are equally
>> deluded. There is nothing to control, only tweaked at a miniscule level of
>> what we perceive to be high intelligence.
>> In effect, no one wants to rip that creature off their face. Maybe it'll
>> all come crashing down. Maybe not. Art can only suggest. It isn't
>> innocent,
>> either
>>
>> rich
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:14 PM David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The System may or may not understand that it’s only buying time. And
>> that
>> > time is an artificial resource to begin with, of no value to anyone or
>> > anything but the System, which must sooner or later crash to its death,
>> > when its addiction to energy has become more than the rest of the World
>> can
>> > supply, dragging with it innocent souls all along the chain of life.
>> Living
>> > inside the System is like riding across the country in a bus driven by a
>> > maniac bent on suicide… though he’s amiable enough, keeps cracking jokes
>> > back through the loudspeaker…” —Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 11:30 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Good point and applicable to many semantic issues. Every generation
>> has a
>> > > tendency to think they are at some kind of apex. I think the term late
>> > > capitalism as used currently  is more predictive than descriptive and
>> may
>> > > of course prove completely wrong through reform or some other event.
>> > > I see it more as acknowledging that the Titanic has received a mortal
>> > blow
>> > > and is going down. That this current arrangement is physically,
>> > > biologically, and socially unsustainable.  I wonder what late
>> capitalism
>> > > means to other readers.
>> > >
>> > > > On Nov 9, 2021, at 10:37 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Let’s get more specific:
>> > > >
>> > > > Inherent in the current use of the term, “late capitalism,” is a
>> > critique
>> > > > of observed problems of the modern practices of capitalism.  But the
>> > term
>> > > > isn’t new:
>> > > >
>> > > > “ The term "late capitalism" was first used by Werner Sombart
>> > > > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Sombart> in his magnum opus
>> > Der
>> > > > Moderne Kapitalismus, which was published from 1902 through 1927,
>> and
>> > > > subsequent writings; Sombart divided capitalism into different
>> stages:
>> > > > (1) proto-capitalist society from the early middle ages up to 1500
>> AD
>> > > > (2) early capitalism in 1500–1800
>> > > > (3) the heyday of capitalism from 1800-1914(WW1)
>> > > > (4) late capitalism: 1914 until today.”
>> > > >
>> > > > “The term late capitalism began to be used by socialists in
>> continental
>> > > > Europe towards the end of the 1930s and in the 1940s, when many
>> > > economists
>> > > > believed capitalism was doomed.”
>> > > >
>> > > > At the heart of the term is the question of whether current problems
>> > are
>> > > > due to abuses and corruptions of the system, or whether the problems
>> > are
>> > > > inherent to the system.  Another question is about the nature of
>> > reforms
>> > > or
>> > > > regulations that make capitalism a hybrid system.  Is a
>> Reformed/Hybrid
>> > > > Capitalism still “Late Capitalism?”
>> > > >
>> > > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
>> > > > Modern usage of the phrase and further evolutionEdit
>> > > > <
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Late_capitalism&action=edit&section=4
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > According to a 2017 article in The Atlantic
>> > > > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlantic>, the term "late
>> > > capitalism"
>> > > > is again in vogue to describe modern business culture, although
>> with a
>> > > > semantic change or an ironic twist. "Late capitalism" has become a
>> > > > catch-all term for various phenomena that express capitalism's
>> > > distortions
>> > > > of human life, and it is often used in critique and satire. This
>> usage
>> > > also
>> > > > conveys a sense that contemporary capitalism cannot go on like it
>> does
>> > > > forever, because the problems created by business are getting too
>> large
>> > > and
>> > > > unmanageable.
>> > > >
>> > > > The phrase “late stage capitalism” is used commonly as a critique of
>> > the
>> > > > fascistic qualities that emerge in the later stages of capitalism.
>> > > > Capitalism to many may seem to be free of this exploitation if not
>> > taken
>> > > to
>> > > > the extremes of “late capitalism”. A competing viewpoint is that
>> > > > “Capitalism, in its orthodoxy, is a system that relies on
>> > authoritative,
>> > > > controlling, and exploitative relationships, most notably between
>> that
>> > of
>> > > > capitalists and workers”, and that this is not something that
>> emerges
>> > out
>> > > > of a devolving system but rather is present in the framework of the
>> > > system
>> > > > itself.
>> > > > --
>> > > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > --
>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>> >
>> --
>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>
>