BE ch 5 nerd wars

Tue Nov 23 01:30:47 UTC 2021

I personally feel Pynchon is describing people and larger social movements fairly accurately and most of the characters and historical figures, wherever the reader, or in this case Driscoll and Maxine, place them on a good-bad spectrum,  have some kind of complexity.  Maybe there is some way of explaining history so that  it was not bad to slaughter Herero or Dodoes or union organizers, usually for sport, religion and profit but I for one am ok with using moral language to address such events and the people who participate in them.  Pynchon gives us different views of such doings from different characters, and at times inserts commentary that appears to be his own thoughts, but he doesn't tell us what to think. We can believe these doings are credible as part of human nature and history or not. I do; many do. I also beleive in choice, the ability to change, mercy, grace; many do. Pynchon is not outside  the mainstream of great fiction in portraying plutocrats and scientists, rulers and low level hired guns who behave criminally, immorally, with self-serving violence. From Shakespeare to Mararet Atwood, to Melville , Toni Morrison or Tolstoy writer’s grapple in various ways with these issues and so ask us to face the events of our own time. 
  If I were to identify a problem with BE specifically, it is not the oversimpification of good guys and bad, but the degree to which the writing sounds reminiscent of Seinfeld or some made up TV detective/CFE sitcom with real criminals too big to stop. There is a TV comedy quality to the storytelling that gets tiring. Maybe there is intentionality here and maybe others don’t have that reaction, but it seeems to me to keep BE from the fuller dimensions of other Pynchon work. 

> On Nov 22, 2021, at 12:40 PM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> that may be , Mark but I think Pynchon has fallen into the 'relatable' characters trap. sure, the Traverses and others are fallible, but there's no real mystery to them. the author just tells you. that's how I see it. I realize others would argue differently
> 
> rich
> 
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 10:53 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>> wrote:
> I say not so easy in some of them....See Allen's words from Rev Gatlin in AtD....see the whole Traverse family.....
> 
> See Maureen here.....see the airhead..........and we've just begun....and in a detective novel we do learn of bad actors.....
> 
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 9:55 AM rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com <mailto:richard.romeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
> why this good guys bad guys shtick? it doesnt make for interesting reading.
> two examples: I just watched Dune--can't get much more black and white, can
> you? all that destruction because the 'emperor' is annoyed. there's no
> tension. you know who to root for. I'm also reading a new biography of
> Robert E. Lee ( I enjoyed the author's previous book on Gettysburg). One
> can vehemently disagree with Lee's decision to fight for the Confederacy
> and his general attitude towards slavery (a bad mark that would eventually
> wither away which granted is not much of an argument, but his views were
> not as extreme as others and he generally had a poor view of the hardcore
> secessionist. essentially he was trying to protect his family and
> livelihood since Arlington was situated so close to DC. I'm not trying to
> condone anything here and there is a lot to criticize, and god knows all
> those monuments (ugh) but history is full of nuance. Pynchon used to have
> that nuance, but its easy to draw a line between the goodies and the
> badies in the last three books. I dont find that much appealing
> 
> rich
> 
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 1:00 PM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
> 
> > One of the themes of  Ch 5 is the division taking place between 2
> > directions for the tech revolution, to be sucked into the world of the rich
> > dickheads, jocks, wall streeters, military contracts...  or to defend some
> > kind of integrity, net neutrality, empowered feminism, fair wages,
> > avoidance of wanton  predation and militarism and  generally to follow your
> > own path, your own cultural affinities, without giving in to suburban
> > consumerism partisan wars etc..  This generalized Nerd version of integrity
> > is a bit vague around the edges which is a weakness Driscoll concedes in
> > observing how easy it will be to recruit “ code monkeys” if there are large
> > military contracts.
> >   I wonder about the sisterly support for Driscolls fascination with
> > Jennifer Anniston’s looks. It seems to me better to tell her she’s already
> > beautiful and should make/find her own look. Totally my opinion here but I
> > wonder if the chicken scene is poking at the potential weirdness/not so
> > coolness of this pursuit of full princess appeal.  Does this circle back to
> > the real estate theme? Do we buy style as we buy real estate, either cookie
> > cutter or salvaging some already worked out creative charm instead of
> > making our own or appreciating what  is already there.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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