No comment although I have them.

Thu Oct 14 22:38:34 UTC 2021

I told my ex, because I couldn't stand the incessant texts--oh here is
another one--that are mind and soul numbing iterations of sheer
obtuse rage, to try contacting me irather in songs.

Which she has proceeded in doing...

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:13 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nah, I think I'm more the kidney, too occasionally the spleen.
>
> Go in peace.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:49 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mark, come on, you are the god of plist.
>>
>> It would not exist without you.
>>
>> You are a Titan.
>>
>> You make light in a world of darkness.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 4:14 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Take care.
>>>
>>> I do not think I am what you say about the plist. He is buried in
>>> Milwaukee, with a seat in his name at his favorite movie theater.
>>>
>>> I just 1) usually respond.    2) like to send some stuff I find that
>>> might interest and might lead to discussion.
>>>
>>> I am away from it for days and weeks at a time. Monroe never was.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry for your turmoil and loss.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 5:10 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We all know that you are the heart and soul of plist, Mark.  Without
>>>> you it would be the nonplist.
>>>>
>>>> As I sat down to write this, your email came in.  As I am writing it,
>>>> there is one from Morrrs.  Which I'll receive after this.
>>>>
>>>> The most amazing thing happened.  I left my woman a few days ago..  And
>>>> in doing so, I told her that I can no longer bare her rage.
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough.  I was being the cool guy in leaving..  Then I got this
>>>> email, from you idiots.  Saying something about Israel.  And it is obvious,
>>>> that, something, like rage, fell forth.  I was telling her about her rage,
>>>> when then something, emanated.  Perhaps there is something within me.
>>>> Maybe we suppress it.
>>>>
>>>> The timing of it was exquisite.
>>>>
>>>> And everything I say is true.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:48 PM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Because it isn't TOTAL. 😇
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me FUCKING SIMPLIFY FOR YOU:
>>>>>
>>>>> BIDEN ADMIN CLIMATE PROPOSALS FULFILL THE UN GOALS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will add that the admin has a TOTAL, speaking of totalizing, ALL OF
>>>>> GOVERNMENT mandate re attacking climate change.
>>>>> Worked into diplomacy, all other bills (if they can be), executive
>>>>> orders, as has happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 3:52 PM Mach Thomberi <machthomberi at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One might what.  I didn't quite get the jizz of that mindless
>>>>>> schpieel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why can't we change it from the plist to the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TOTAL FUCKING KOHUT LIST.
>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2021 12:02 PM, "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, the US commitments to effect climate change, have been called
>>>>>>> by an
>>>>>>> outside organization, policies that match
>>>>>>> the recommendations as necessary, that if all countries were to
>>>>>>> commit to
>>>>>>> and do would meet the goal
>>>>>>> of staying under 2 degrees Celsius per the recent MAJOR, scary, UN
>>>>>>> Report.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is, these policies meet the UN Report's recommendations to
>>>>>>> achieve the
>>>>>>> stated goal. One might think the admin
>>>>>>> talked to the UN as that report was being written---the science
>>>>>>> compiled
>>>>>>> over years, as we know--and met the guidelines. One might.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:17 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >  I don't have that clear a take on some imagined world majority
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> > wish I could sincerely agree but at this point I stand with
>>>>>>> Greta,  what we
>>>>>>> > hear from so called leaders is blah blah, blah, and what we see is
>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>> > arms sales , continued growth in C02 emissions, threats  and
>>>>>>> violent
>>>>>>> > blockades by the US,  mass survellance, publishers being tortured
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> > publishing the same thing as the NY Times,  pipelines and a
>>>>>>> revived nuclear
>>>>>>> > arms program.  I could go on but what is the point.
>>>>>>> >    It’s true that there are many, many people who want change and
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> > gladden my heart as they do yours. They are not yet organized as an
>>>>>>> > effective agent of change though most do what they can. In the
>>>>>>> lead up to
>>>>>>> > the second Iraq war the world saw the biggest anti-war
>>>>>>> demonstration in
>>>>>>> > human history and the biggest global demonstration ever, rivaled
>>>>>>> only by
>>>>>>> > climate crisis activism. It did not stop the war and was barely
>>>>>>> covered in
>>>>>>> > the US press.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I will assert as baldly as your assertions that the majority of
>>>>>>> the people
>>>>>>> > in the Pokey Little Puppy's Whole
>>>>>>> > Wide World are acting and imagining outside of this blanket
>>>>>>> condemnation:
>>>>>>> >  "imagine solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and
>>>>>>> ecological
>>>>>>> > rape."
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Many businesses, many countries, with whatever else they are also
>>>>>>> doing,
>>>>>>> > are acting FINALLY against this 'reliance".
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:51 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> The historic creation of Israel is a subject that has already led
>>>>>>> to many
>>>>>>> >> many books and articles.  I have read quite a few of those books.
>>>>>>> What I
>>>>>>> >> said is what I said, and I wasn’t trying to ccomplish whatever
>>>>>>> you or
>>>>>>> >> mathew c think I should have been. But without a doubt the
>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>> >> creation of Israel has involved decades of assult on the
>>>>>>> Palestinians who
>>>>>>> >> lived there before the Jewish settlers came. It was as much an
>>>>>>> act of
>>>>>>> >> destruction and theft in my view as an act of creation. In the
>>>>>>> same way the
>>>>>>> >> “creation” of the US required a destructive assault on indiginous
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>> >> Israel seems to me to follow the biblical paradigm of Zionism
>>>>>>> layed out in
>>>>>>> >> the legends of Joshua and later David. I think that is clear
>>>>>>> enough and
>>>>>>> >> quite defensible as a proposition.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>  As far as I can tell most countries are acts of imagination  and
>>>>>>> >> violence based on tilling and armies, they are a product of the
>>>>>>> paradigm of
>>>>>>> >> war . National borders and rules are usually a lot more arbitrary
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> >> natural human self organizing and require leaders imposing taxes
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> >> violence. Since the advent of mass production and fossil fuels we
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> >> new paradigm that combines the economic predations of investment
>>>>>>> capitalism
>>>>>>> >> with the military power or imperial alliances. This is quickly
>>>>>>> destroying
>>>>>>> >> the biospheric stability of the planet.  Our imaginations could
>>>>>>> be put to
>>>>>>> >> better use. We are not bound to follow our path of self
>>>>>>> destruction by
>>>>>>> >> anything other than unwillingness to face the problems  and
>>>>>>> imagine
>>>>>>> >> solutions than are not reliant on war, poisons and ecological
>>>>>>> rape.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 7:49 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > Joseph,
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > Without distinctions, your generalities about all countries
>>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>> >> and when are always correct.
>>>>>>> >> > Yet say nothing substantive about the creation of Israel--or
>>>>>>> any other
>>>>>>> >> country for that matter.
>>>>>>> >> > And do little (or nothing) for discussion of all your Historic
>>>>>>> evils
>>>>>>> >> but show us a nice, beautifully-expressed personal credo--open to
>>>>>>> all: "the
>>>>>>> >> heart of this holy path is to choose life, to love the great
>>>>>>> mystery of
>>>>>>> >> being wih all the heart and all the mind and the very kernel of
>>>>>>> life we
>>>>>>> >> have been given, and to treat others as we wish to be treated.”
>>>>>>> >> Guess what. That is not a personal credo, Those are ideas from
>>>>>>> Judaism(
>>>>>>> >> The Torah and Maimonedes) which I appreciate and try to honor in
>>>>>>> my life.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > Mark
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:21 AM Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > Annihilation is a loaded word. It sounds cruel and violent.
>>>>>>> Truthfully
>>>>>>> >> though, a name or concept or form of government can be eliminated
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> >> replaced without destroying human lives or poisoning the earth.
>>>>>>> Nations and
>>>>>>> >> religions have changed and died before with little or even benign
>>>>>>> >> consequences. And those nations  that survived and rose to become
>>>>>>> “great
>>>>>>> >> powers" have a pretty shitty track record to justify themselves.
>>>>>>> Imagine
>>>>>>> >> all the people living life in peace.
>>>>>>> >> > I don’t know exactly what Thomberi ( sounds a made up name) is
>>>>>>> >> intending, whether tongue in cheek or weirdly sincere, but I
>>>>>>> think matthew
>>>>>>> >> c is wildly sentimentalizing how Israel came into being. As to
>>>>>>> what is to
>>>>>>> >> be done. It is a question for all of us, not just Israel. Settler
>>>>>>> >> colonialism and its cruelties are embedded in most of the world.
>>>>>>> Western
>>>>>>> >> civilization as configured has desertified vast parts of the
>>>>>>> globe, moved
>>>>>>> >> sane indiginous cultures into bantustans and is rapidly
>>>>>>> destroying the
>>>>>>> >> diverse species upon which life as we know it exists, rapidly
>>>>>>> moving us
>>>>>>> >> toward waves of mass destruction . As for me, yes i really am
>>>>>>> ready to hand
>>>>>>> >> over my land and the very concept of property to the tribal
>>>>>>> peoples of
>>>>>>> >> north america. Would they want this mess, our mini-flags, banks
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> >> fracking machines? I don’t know, but I could not be more serious
>>>>>>> about my
>>>>>>> >> acre of workspace , fruit trees, asparagus, maple trees, and
>>>>>>> stone walls.
>>>>>>> >> My whole life is about the effort to move myself and others
>>>>>>> toward an
>>>>>>> >> ecologically sustainable life, and the biggest impediment to
>>>>>>> change is the
>>>>>>> >> settler colonialist warfare that continues from the ancient to
>>>>>>> the modern
>>>>>>> >> world, that turns from warlordism to nationalism  to imperial
>>>>>>> warfare. What
>>>>>>> >> Israel and the US and China and Russia and Brazil and Canada and
>>>>>>> so many
>>>>>>> >> rapacious military dictatorships are expressing in this shared
>>>>>>> planet  is
>>>>>>> >> varying forms of  sociopathic madness organized by  self
>>>>>>> destructive
>>>>>>> >> dreams, egomania, and imaginary polities that have ravaged our
>>>>>>> common sense
>>>>>>> >> as animals, our friendliness as neighbors, our ability to choose
>>>>>>> life above
>>>>>>> >> what they have too offer. And what do they have to offer as their
>>>>>>> >> civilization crumbles? Comfortable places to watch the world
>>>>>>> burn, endless
>>>>>>> >> entertaining air conditioned shitpiles, debt,  fat people eating
>>>>>>> big juicy
>>>>>>> >> hamburgers and an all too violent and real global annihilation,
>>>>>>> James Bond
>>>>>>> >> may or may not have lost his dick, but he stil has a license to
>>>>>>> kill.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >  Zionism is the same disease as the master race, manifest
>>>>>>> destiny,
>>>>>>> >> salafism, pax romana, capitalism, militarism. Its origins can be
>>>>>>> read by
>>>>>>> >> anyone. Joshua crosses into “ the promised land” to kill the
>>>>>>> sinful
>>>>>>> >> Canaanites or make them into slaves to the chosen people.”Blessed
>>>>>>> is he who
>>>>>>> >> dashes thy little ones against a stone”. This fable has become
>>>>>>> the script
>>>>>>> >> for modern day Israel, just as some version of this script has
>>>>>>> written so
>>>>>>> >> much human history. It will script global suicide if we let it.
>>>>>>> If we
>>>>>>> >> cannot prevent it.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > Zionism was never the remarkable part of Judaism, the heart of
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> >> holy path is to choose life, to love the great mystery of being
>>>>>>> wih all the
>>>>>>> >> heart and all the mind and the very kernel of life we have been
>>>>>>> given, and
>>>>>>> >> to treat others as we wish to be treated.
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > > On Oct 13, 2021, at 4:14 PM, matthew cissell <
>>>>>>> mccissell at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mccissell at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > Mach,
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > So let me see. You seem to propose the annihilation of
>>>>>>> Israel, a
>>>>>>> >> country
>>>>>>> >> > > created whole cloth from ideas, dreams, stories and more by
>>>>>>> carving
>>>>>>> >> out a
>>>>>>> >> > > space for that community that had formed a nation but lacked
>>>>>>> a state.
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > Ok. Two things (that I'll say) occur to me: What do you
>>>>>>> propose for
>>>>>>> >> the
>>>>>>> >> > > people? Do you have some... solution for them as well? Would
>>>>>>> it be
>>>>>>> >> the same
>>>>>>> >> > > for Arabic and Jewish citizens? What would it entail?
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > Next: If you (and others that share your view) are the
>>>>>>> descendent of
>>>>>>> >> > > Europeans living in the Americas (or some other previously
>>>>>>> >> > > colonized place), I suppose you are also ready to 'undo' your
>>>>>>> county
>>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>> >> > > hand over your land to the indigenous communities. Or are you
>>>>>>> writing
>>>>>>> >> from
>>>>>>> >> > > somewhere else, in which case we might talk about that place.
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > Criticizing the trespasses of any country or government is
>>>>>>> one thing,
>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>> >> > > calling for its abolition is something else. The actions of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> Israeli
>>>>>>> >> > > government have often been reprehensible or even criminal,
>>>>>>> but that
>>>>>>> >> does
>>>>>>> >> > > not justify your language, which would certainly find
>>>>>>> applause and
>>>>>>> >> echoes
>>>>>>> >> > > in a certain rising current in not only US political
>>>>>>> discourse but
>>>>>>> >> more
>>>>>>> >> > > widely.
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > I'm responding not because I think your mind is likely to be
>>>>>>> changed
>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>> >> > > because I want you and others to know that in this open forum
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> >> will find
>>>>>>> >> > > voices that do not apathetically ignore your statements.
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > Ne Obliviscaris
>>>>>>> >> > > Matthew Cissell
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 4:33 PM Mach Thomberi <
>>>>>>> machthomberi at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:machthomberi at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>> >> > > wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > >
>>>>>>> >> > >> No we wouldn't want that would we.  Deprive Israel water and
>>>>>>> >> medicine.
>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>> >> > >> What would be marvelous.  Would be removing Israel from the
>>>>>>> map.
>>>>>>> >> Cut it
>>>>>>> >> > >> out and dispense it into the ether.
>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>> >> > >> Then do likewise of our collective memory of Israel.
>>>>>>> >> > >> On Oct 13, 2021 9:23 AM, "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net
>>>>>>> <mailto:
>>>>>>> >> brook7 at sover.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>> >> > >>> I would not go so far as to cut Israelis off from medicine
>>>>>>> or clean
>>>>>>> >> water
>>>>>>> >> > >>> as they have done to Gaza, but a cultural boycott is
>>>>>>> potentially a
>>>>>>> >> way to
>>>>>>> >> > >>> bring the debate into a more public sphere. We need equally
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> >> confront
>>>>>>> >> > >>> what so many in the western press and politics  have done
>>>>>>> on this
>>>>>>> >> issue.
>>>>>>> >> > >>> They  have supported  the insane idea that anyone who
>>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>>> >> > >> criticizes
>>>>>>> >> > >>> Israel’s abuse of Palestinians is doing so out of
>>>>>>> anti-semitism.
>>>>>>> >> They
>>>>>>> >> > >> are
>>>>>>> >> > >>> labeled  anti-semitic even if they are Jews whose parents
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> >> relatives
>>>>>>> >> > >>> survived or died  in Nazi concentration camps.
>>>>>>> >> > >>>  Sally Rooney said she would be honored to have her book
>>>>>>> translated
>>>>>>> >> to
>>>>>>> >> > >>> Hebrew but will not work with a publisher who does not
>>>>>>> distance
>>>>>>> >> > >> themselves
>>>>>>> >> > >>> from Israel’s aparteid treatment of Palestinians.
>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 3:44 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Why no comment?  This is a place for opinion.  As for me,
>>>>>>> I say
>>>>>>> >> > >> Bravo!  I
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> think Israel deserves full apartheid treatment right now.
>>>>>>> And too
>>>>>>> >> many
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> people are afraid to say so.   There!  I said it.
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> David Morris
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 3:25 PM Mark Kohut <
>>>>>>> mark.kohut at gmail.com
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>> >> > >> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney-
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> >> https://forward.com/opinion/476513/why-wont-sally-rooney->
>>>>>>> >> > >>> allow-her-latest-novel-to-be-translated-into-hebrew/
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> --
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> --
>>>>>>> >> > >>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>>> >> > >>> --
>>>>>>> >> > >>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >> > >>>
>>>>>>> >> > >> --
>>>>>>> >> > >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >> > >>
>>>>>>> >> > > --
>>>>>>> >> > > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>> >> > --
>>>>>>> >> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l <
>>>>>>> >> https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>