Umberto Eco - Ur Fascism

[Martin Dietze]

On 3. January 2022 at 16:10:30, Joseph Tracy (brook7 at sover.net) wrote:

I think the US and EU Nato countries are playing with dynamite. Russia is
clearly responding to the threat of Nato missiles right on their border and
to the US reneging on earlier promises not to advance Nato boundary.

AFAIK countries like Poland and Germany are far more threatened by the
nuclear missiles Russia has stationed in Kaliningrad [2] (which is in the
middle of Poland) than of anything the NATO has stationed near Russia’s
border (see [2] for the geographical context).

To my knowledge the alleged promise of not advancing NATO's boundary
eastwards is a myth. Then-Soviet-leader Mikhail Gorbachev has later
labelled this a “myth”, see this interview in [3]:

   - Gorbachev: you need to consider this: At that time there was NATO and
   the Warsaw Pact. What could have been subject to an agreement if any? There
   was no such question then.
   - Interviewer: does that mean that the statement that you were deceived
   by NATO’s expansion to the East is a myth?
   - Gorbachev: indeed, this is a myth. This is something the press, dear
   press, was involved.

I can remember the early 1990s quite well, I was in my mid twenties then.
Russia was not perceived as an opponent, actually politicians and ordinary
people hoped (and even expected) Russia to eventually join the “free
world”. Countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia and the three Baltic
republics were less naive and urged the NATO to accept their membership.
Looking at what happened to other post soviet countries like Moldova,
Georgia and Ukraine, one has to acknowledge that the before mentioned where
right. NATO can refuse accepting a member application (as - then driven by
Germany and France - done in 2008, just months before Russia invaded
Georgia), but each country has a right to choose their own allies. Hence
you are promoting an idea which I consider by itself quite dangerous and
also disregarding peoples’ rights.

 I also think Ukraine should settle while it can. An armed conflict will
not go well for them. The US can no longer control the Eurasian continent
through proxies. Shit, we couldn’t even succeed in whatever the fuck we
thought we were doing in Afghanistan , Syria, Iraq or Libya. Calling Putin
names won’t solve the problem. The US should concern itself with our own
sovereign territory and stop trying to rule the world.
I read one of Putin’s speeches a couple days ago and wish our leaders were
as smart, careful and sensible. I don’t like authoritarian structures
anywhere but acting like our authoritarian crimes are negligible is
nonsense. De escalate and make justice in your own house.

Words are just words. East Europe’s peoples assess Putin entirely
differently, and that is based on experience - something we in our
respective distant and secure countries do not really have.

I have recommended the book Putin’s Kleptocracy by Karen Dawisha [4], and I
am now doing this again. The book is based on well-documented research with
an exhaustive list of references according to which one can verify the
claims made there. For me it was an eye-opener, and I think that knowing
Putin’s background “name calling” should no longer be an issue.

References:

   1. https://fas.org/blogs/security/2018/06/kaliningrad/
   2. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_16SS2XsAA_rWY.jpg
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZES9PVKcks
   4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Kleptocracy