Umberto Eco - Ur Fascism

[Joseph Tracy]

I find it most useful to look at deeds. There is no free world. The world is being raped for the benefit of a few. I personally do not regard rapists as free any more than rape victims. And from what I see the empire led by the US is by far the most violent and tends to establish vassal states using a vast array of bullying tools. We say we are for elections and constitutional process but again and again we barricade and threaten countries when we don’t like the outcomes of their elections. And our allies outside of Europe are a who’s who of military despots.
 Meanwhile the Soviet empire is  mostly gone, released from Russian control while new regions in Africa and the Gulf are being blockaded and militarily attacked by the US. What country  is Russia starving? blockading, seizing sovereign money to destabilize elected governments? When the elected govt of Ukraine was overthrown in a coup it required the backing of the US. And now we are sending in weapons and making dubious gestures of support. How many times have such actions led to wars that serve nobody’s interests.

 Of course Russia is in a threatening position regarding Europe.  The US would like to control Eurasia just as the UK did. Russia prefers not to be another US  debt colony and has chosen to prepare for the worst. Do you honestly think Ukraine is well advised to comply with US Nato plans. Is a buildup for war really sensible?.   The facts are simple. It is the US and not Russia that has an overwhwelming  history of aggression and attempted  regime change. We have suspicions about Putin’s intentions?? Like suspicions of weapons of mass destruction leading to mass murder? Like suspicions that led to torture in Abu Graibh, Afghanistan, Guantanamo. Like suspicions that led to the destruction of Libya?  Who has the greatest reason for suspicions?

 Stephen Kinzer said" Despite all our bluster, the United States would be highly unlikely to send troops to support Ukraine in a war with Russia. Instead, we should promote a settlement that would turn Ukraine into a Slavic version of Finland or Austria: open to all, West-oriented if its people so desire, but militarily neutral. “

Stephen Cohen: "First of all, what everybody must want is peace between Russia and Ukraine. So why would you pour more weapons, why would you tempt one Ukrainian—now the leadership of Ukraine has changed—but why would you tempt one or another Ukrainian leadership to broaden the war, where you want above all to bring peace?  Secondly, in whose hands eventually do such weapons fall? I mean, there’s no guarantee in a place like Ukraine, that the Ukrainian army, which is involved in the black market in a big way, those weapons could go anywhere."  …...
…..
"But if you go into the demographics, the number of inter marriages between Russians and Ukrainians, it runs in the tens of millions. I mean, I don’t want to say they’re, they’re not one people, I mean, there is a separate Ukrainian identity. Ukraine is a diverse country. Western Ukraine looks to Poland and Lithuania, not to Russia. But, nonetheless, much of central Ukraine and almost all of southern Ukraine look to Russia as brethren, as kinfolk, as family. To trespass in a family spat, which is not a good idea in our everyday lives, in geopolitics it’s a greater mistake. "

   
> On Jan 3, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Martin Dietze <mdietze at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On 3. January 2022 at 16:10:30, Joseph Tracy (brook7 at sover.net <mailto:brook7 at sover.net>) wrote:
>> I think the US and EU Nato countries are playing with dynamite. Russia is clearly responding to the threat of Nato missiles right on their border and to the US reneging on earlier promises not to advance Nato boundary.
> 
> AFAIK countries like Poland and Germany are far more threatened by the nuclear missiles Russia has stationed in Kaliningrad [2] (which is in the middle of Poland) than of anything the NATO has stationed near Russia’s border (see [2] for the geographical context).
> 
> To my knowledge the alleged promise of not advancing NATO's boundary eastwards is a myth. Then-Soviet-leader Mikhail Gorbachev has later labelled this a “myth”, see this interview in [3]:
> 
> Gorbachev: you need to consider this: At that time there was NATO and the Warsaw Pact. What could have been subject to an agreement if any? There was no such question then.
> Interviewer: does that mean that the statement that you were deceived by NATO’s expansion to the East is a myth?
> Gorbachev: indeed, this is a myth. This is something the press, dear press, was involved.
> 
> I can remember the early 1990s quite well, I was in my mid twenties then. Russia was not perceived as an opponent, actually politicians and ordinary people hoped (and even expected) Russia to eventually join the “free world”. Countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia and the three Baltic republics were less naive and urged the NATO to accept their membership. Looking at what happened to other post soviet countries like Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine, one has to acknowledge that the before mentioned where right. NATO can refuse accepting a member application (as - then driven by Germany and France - done in 2008, just months before Russia invaded Georgia), but each country has a right to choose their own allies. Hence you are promoting an idea which I consider by itself quite dangerous and also disregarding peoples’ rights.
> 
>>  I also think Ukraine should settle while it can. An armed conflict will not go well for them. The US can no longer control the Eurasian continent through proxies. Shit, we couldn’t even succeed in whatever the fuck we thought we were doing in Afghanistan , Syria, Iraq or Libya. Calling Putin names won’t solve the problem. The US should concern itself with our own sovereign territory and stop trying to rule the world.
>> I read one of Putin’s speeches a couple days ago and wish our leaders were as smart, careful and sensible. I don’t like authoritarian structures anywhere but acting like our authoritarian crimes are negligible is nonsense. De escalate and make justice in your own house.
> 
> Words are just words. East Europe’s peoples assess Putin entirely differently, and that is based on experience - something we in our respective distant and secure countries do not really have. 
> 
> I have recommended the book Putin’s Kleptocracy by Karen Dawisha [4], and I am now doing this again. The book is based on well-documented research with an exhaustive list of references according to which one can verify the claims made there. For me it was an eye-opener, and I think that knowing Putin’s background “name calling” should no longer be an issue. 
> 
> References:
> 
> https://fas.org/blogs/security/2018/06/kaliningrad/ <https://fas.org/blogs/security/2018/06/kaliningrad/> 
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_16SS2XsAA_rWY.jpg <https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_16SS2XsAA_rWY.jpg> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZES9PVKcks <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZES9PVKcks> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Kleptocracy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Kleptocracy> 
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