NP but LAST AND FIRST MEN

[Mark Kohut]

Dover Books has published it here in America since 1968, when I first have
become aware of it.
Dover, a company more than half- built on books without copyright, which
might have been the case
already in 1968 in the US for those books, dunno....

That Dover book, which is the one I got from a book donation, is not in
print at the moment it seems.

So, does seem like UK might do him a solid better than this
anti-intellectual country...

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 2:55 PM Paul Cray <pmcray at gmail.com> wrote:

> "Star Maker" a whole 49p from Penguin on UK Kindle:
> https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/0241442974/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=f3c7940288dd2895b459e36dd6fcea53&content-id=amzn1.sym.e4f48e2a-4f4e-495a-a95b-34f114e19c84%3Aamzn1.sym.e4f48e2a-4f4e-495a-a95b-34f114e19c84&hsa_cr_id=8922343310802&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=76337ab8-8709-4ff9-84f8-225d79577128&pd_rd_w=3Mt9M&pd_rd_wg=3oAUd&qid=1655922876&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_2_img&sr=1-3-fd947bf3-57d2-4cc9-939d-2805f92cef28
>
> Which would be 49p well spent!
>
> 'A prodigious novel ... Stapledon's literary imagination was boundless'
> Jorge Luis Borges
>
> And Borges does provide an extract from "Star Maker" in his, in all ways
> essential, anthology "The Book of Fantasy":
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Fantasy.
>
> https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/stapledon_olaf
>
> Stapledon is very well known and regarded in sf circles even though
> "[i]ronically, the acclamation he received late in life as an sf writer may
> partially account for his total neglect by historians of modern
> literature.".
>
> I recall being at a panel at the British Eastercon sf convention in the
> late 1990s and a friend of mine made a comment about Stapledon and Brian
> Aldiss, who was on the panel, came up to him afterwards to praise him for
> making the point. My friend and I were young then, so perhaps Aldiss was
> surprised Stapledon was known to us.
>
> "Star Maker" is in the recent Penguin series of sf classics, but perhaps
> there are no nice recent US editions, so it could be Stapledon is
> potentially better known in the UK than the US. Someone has been buying
> those Penguins and Gollanczs over the last few decades.
>
> Paul
>
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 10:46, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> L&FM is told as if Mankind Itself is speaking!....And after a precis of
>> WW1 and its effect on Europe, --remember published in 1930 or 31, it goes
>> on to narrate other wars....Italy w a Mussolini figure attacks
>> France.......soon, France bombs England and destroys 1/3rd of it......in
>> weeks....
>>
>> Had no idea anyone, much less Aldiss, held it THAT high in
>> esteem.....thought it was a wayward niche thing.....
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 11:56 AM Paul Cray <pmcray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brian W. Aldiss in "Trillion Year Spree" calls "Star Maker" "the one
>>> great, grey holy book of science fiction" and he is right.
>>>
>>> The whole of the history of humanity explicated in "Last and First Men"
>>> is reduced to a mere tick in the cosmic clock in "Star Maker". The sheer
>>> imaginative force and scope of both works though is breathtaking. That they
>>> have stayed in print indicates that Stapledon's obscurity is relative, It's
>>> very likely that TRP would be acquainted with his work, but Aldiss says
>>> that Stapledon neglect by the mainstream is "inexplicable".
>>>
>>> The early sections especially of "Last and First Men" might seem dated
>>> today, but this isn't an issue with "Star Maker". It's a lot shorter than
>>> "Last and First Men", but is presented on an exponentially bigger stage and
>>> is certainly worth anyone's time to peruse. It should be generally
>>> recognised as what it is, one of the very greatest novels of the C20th.
>>>
>>> Stapledon's "Odd John" and "Sirius" are also well worth reading.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 04:00, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For a speculative future historian, having a “Vision” would seem a
>>>> requirement. I read SciFi as light stuff between more “serious” stuff.
>>>> But
>>>> really good SciFi can be very thought provoking. And reading stuff from
>>>> the
>>>> 30’s can be mind-blowing in how far-reaching and correct their vision
>>>> can
>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know if this one is worth reading
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 5:35 AM Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Olaf Stapledon wrote a couple famous SF novels
>>>> > before Tom was even born...but they have stayed
>>>> > in print because they are good and still read, it seems.
>>>> >
>>>> > I have wanted to read them but never have. I came across
>>>> > a copy of them and have opened the one in the subject header.
>>>> >
>>>> > I wanted to share this definition of "vision" from his intro
>>>> > to the original American edition because I often write
>>>> > of TRP's vision and ask myself if I could define vision
>>>> > if challenged since I too know detailing what Pynchon "believes"
>>>> > about real life things is a fool's game. But a vision is not that.
>>>> >
>>>> > "But visions, if they are to be permanently helpful, must embody
>>>> > the whole breadth and depth of experience. They must not be crude,
>>>> > extravagant, lopsided. They must be conceived not only with
>>>> originality
>>>> > but with sanity, even if sanity has to take up a new orientation in
>>>> > consequence
>>>> > of the new vision."
>>>> >
>>>> > But I only decided to write and send this because of a later
>>>> paragraph from
>>>> > him in his
>>>> > earlier-written Preface. Will follow very soon.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>> >
>>>> --
>>>> Pynchon-L: https://waste.org/mailman/listinfo/pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>