NP - for the Ukraine discussion group

[jody2.718]

"@JuliaDavisNews

 · Mar 2

Russian state media is having a field day with Ret. Col. Doug Macgregor's
recent suggestion on Fox News that the people of Ukraine should really just
lie down and let Putin have his way."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt that Russia will permit itself to lose militarily. But whether provoked or not,

Putin has overplayed his hand and Russia, Ukraine and the World loses either way.

This war is a huge distraction from what the world needs now. If we are going to keep the

the last Two Horseman of the Apocalypse from saddling up- and they're rarin' to go- then

we need to stop focusing on absurd nationalistic pretenses and come together to deal with the

real crises facing us all. Is it possible? Is a Bear Catholic? Shit, I'll settle for Orthodox,

even secular humanist, at this point.

Would Russia tolerate an independent democratic Ukraine not in or armed by NATO- no advisers,

missles or other Western threats? Here's some quotes from Putin's address to the United Nations

General Assembly on the anniversary of its 70th anniversary, 9/28/2015:

"

Dear colleagues, ensuring peace and regional and global stability remains the key objective of

the international community with the U.N. at its helm. We believe this means creating a space of

equal and indivisible security, which is not for the select few but for everyone. Yet, it is a

challenge and complicated and time-consuming task, but there is simply no other alternative.

However, the bloc thinking of the times of the Cold War and the desire to explore new geopolitical

areas is still present among some of our colleagues.

First, they continue their policy of expanding

NATO. What for? If the Warsaw Bloc stopped its existence, the Soviet Union have collapsed (ph) and,

nevertheless, the (sic) NATO continues expanding as well as its military infrastructure. Then they offered

the poor Soviet countries a false choice: either to be with the West or with the East. Sooner or later,

this logic of confrontation was bound to spark off a grave geopolitical crisis. This is exactly what

happened in Ukraine, where the discontent of population with the current authorities was used and the

military coup was orchestrated from outside — that triggered a civil war as a result.

We're confident

that only through full and faithful implementation of the Minsk agreements of February 12th, 2015,

can we put an end to the bloodshed and find a way out of the deadlock. Ukraine's territorial integrity

cannot be ensured by threat of force and force of arms. What is needed is a genuine consideration for

the interests and rights of the people in the Donbas region and respect for their choice. There is a

need to coordinate with them as provided for by the Minsk agreements, the key elements of the country's

political structure. These steps will guarantee that Ukraine will develop as a civilized society, as an

essential link and building a common space of security and economic cooperation, both in Europe and in

Eurasia.

"

A lot to quibble with there, but basically all moot at this point. We don't have the time or luxury of doing

this crazy shit to ourselves. After the war, and it will end, who's going to rebuild Ukraine? Resettle all

the displaced humans? The only

faint glimmer of hope in all this is that the sacrifices of the suffering

people

on all sides will be a call, not to arms, but to cooperate, beginning with with the Ukraine and

spreading outward, inspiring humanity with the courage to deal with our real and pressing problems,

before it's too late.